4 ms·

You need an ID to drive, buy alcohol, buy cigarettes, board a plane. And people manage to do all those things.

gspr 29d ago
No, all people do not manage to do those things (even if they wanted to).
bojan 29d ago
You can do all that with a driving license, but a driving license is not a proof of citizenship and thus of your eligibility to vote. In Europe, you can't get a regular ID without being a citizen. So having an ID automatically means you're eligible to vote.
- gspr 29d ago
  > In Europe, you can't get a regular ID without being a citizen. So having an ID automatically means you're eligible to vote. Nitpick: E.g. Norwegian ID cards can be had by any legal resident. The card will say that you're not a citizen though, so your point about that stands. Re driving license: Driving license is a valid form of ID for voting here. All eligible people are on the voting rolls automatically (unlike the absurd american system), and the driving license is merely used to prove you are who you say you are.
- ahoka 29d ago
  This is not true. For example not every citizen can vote (people under guardianship or criminals) and not citizens can vote in local elections in the EU, if they came from another EU country.
  - bojan 29d ago
    Yes. There are all kinds of edge cases. The point I tried to make is that with the system we have here it's much less of a hassle to prove you're eligible to vote. The system wants you to be able to vote, and to be able to do that easily.
- impossiblefork 29d ago
  Yes, but a driver's license can be accepted as ID. Just because a driver's license isn't proof of citizenship doesn't mean that it isn't sufficient, since it will have some identifier connected to the identity of the voter. You would show the driver's license, then the registrars would find your name on the list, strike it out, give your voting envelopes, and then you go wait for a private booth to become free and then you go into that booth and put your votes in those voting envelopes. A Swedish driver's license doesn't mean Swedish citizenship. It can still be used to check somebody's identity. Citizenship is checked by seeing whether the person is on the voter rolls, not by their identity card.
  - tancop 29d ago
    Some of the Republican proposals would require a proof of citizenship at registration time. You would still be able to register without a passport but you need to take your birth or naturalization certificate. Not everyone has them at home so you might need to go to your parents place in another state or risk getting it mailed. Good luck. The point is not making registration impossible, just harder and more complicated. When you combine it with voter roll purges the play is clear. Get a biased commission to remove everyone named Jackson or Hernandez a couple months before the election because "there's too many people with that last name and officials might confuse them" or purge a whole district that just happens to be an opposing party stronghold based on a single voter fraud conviction.Do it silently without informing voters, and when they realize they need to register again they have to go through a complicated process designed to make them give up. Rejecting IDs at the poll booth is actually pretty rare because it's so obvious. Real schemes are a bit more creative.
  - hackyhacky 29d ago
    > Yes, but a driver's license can be accepted as ID So what would that accomplish? The Trump playbook asserts that there is a massive conspiracy involving noncitizen voting. Their proposals involve proving citizenship to vote. And now your argument is to use ID that doesn't prove citizenship. Brilliant.
- MisterMower 29d ago
  In my state government issued ID is used to verify who you are. You are then issued a ballot if your name is also in the poll book. Your eligibility to vote and have your name entered into the poll book is determined by providing a Social Security number or birth certificate. So yes, a driver’s license is sufficient ID to vote in many states.
  - hackyhacky 29d ago
    > So yes, a driver’s license is sufficient ID to vote in many states. At the moment, yes. Under Republican voter ID proposals that require proving citizenship, no. Having an SSN does not imply US citizenship.
Morromist 29d ago
Actually you need a REAL ID to board a plane now. 20% of americans don't have them. They're pointless, take a lot of time and effort to aquire and are needlessly expensive. I don't have one because I have a passport.
- hackyhacky 29d ago
  > Actually you need a REAL ID to board a plane now. If you don't have a REAL ID or passport, you can just pay a $50 fee and get on the plane anyway. So whatever the REAL ID proves cannot be essential to security.
altacc 29d ago
In much of Europe you don't need ID for those, except a driving license, which happens to be an ID but primarily exists to prove you are qualified to drive. If you look young you are asked to prove your age if buying cigarettes or alcohol but the requirements for that are relatively low. Until recently in the UK you did not need any ID to vote, that was introduced recently as an echo to the US stolen election conspiracy, as demagogues love to steal ideas from each other.

gspr 29d ago

No, all people do not manage to do those things (even if they wanted to).

bojan 29d ago

You can do all that with a driving license, but a driving license is not a proof of citizenship and thus of your eligibility to vote. In Europe, you can't get a regular ID without being a citizen. So having an ID automatically means you're eligible to vote.

gspr 29d ago
> In Europe, you can't get a regular ID without being a citizen. So having an ID automatically means you're eligible to vote. Nitpick: E.g. Norwegian ID cards can be had by any legal resident. The card will say that you're not a citizen though, so your point about that stands. Re driving license: Driving license is a valid form of ID for voting here. All eligible people are on the voting rolls automatically (unlike the absurd american system), and the driving license is merely used to prove you are who you say you are.
ahoka 29d ago
This is not true. For example not every citizen can vote (people under guardianship or criminals) and not citizens can vote in local elections in the EU, if they came from another EU country.
- bojan 29d ago
  Yes. There are all kinds of edge cases. The point I tried to make is that with the system we have here it's much less of a hassle to prove you're eligible to vote. The system wants you to be able to vote, and to be able to do that easily.
impossiblefork 29d ago
Yes, but a driver's license can be accepted as ID. Just because a driver's license isn't proof of citizenship doesn't mean that it isn't sufficient, since it will have some identifier connected to the identity of the voter. You would show the driver's license, then the registrars would find your name on the list, strike it out, give your voting envelopes, and then you go wait for a private booth to become free and then you go into that booth and put your votes in those voting envelopes. A Swedish driver's license doesn't mean Swedish citizenship. It can still be used to check somebody's identity. Citizenship is checked by seeing whether the person is on the voter rolls, not by their identity card.
- tancop 29d ago
  Some of the Republican proposals would require a proof of citizenship at registration time. You would still be able to register without a passport but you need to take your birth or naturalization certificate. Not everyone has them at home so you might need to go to your parents place in another state or risk getting it mailed. Good luck. The point is not making registration impossible, just harder and more complicated. When you combine it with voter roll purges the play is clear. Get a biased commission to remove everyone named Jackson or Hernandez a couple months before the election because "there's too many people with that last name and officials might confuse them" or purge a whole district that just happens to be an opposing party stronghold based on a single voter fraud conviction.Do it silently without informing voters, and when they realize they need to register again they have to go through a complicated process designed to make them give up. Rejecting IDs at the poll booth is actually pretty rare because it's so obvious. Real schemes are a bit more creative.
- hackyhacky 29d ago
  > Yes, but a driver's license can be accepted as ID So what would that accomplish? The Trump playbook asserts that there is a massive conspiracy involving noncitizen voting. Their proposals involve proving citizenship to vote. And now your argument is to use ID that doesn't prove citizenship. Brilliant.
MisterMower 29d ago
In my state government issued ID is used to verify who you are. You are then issued a ballot if your name is also in the poll book. Your eligibility to vote and have your name entered into the poll book is determined by providing a Social Security number or birth certificate. So yes, a driver’s license is sufficient ID to vote in many states.
- hackyhacky 29d ago
  > So yes, a driver’s license is sufficient ID to vote in many states. At the moment, yes. Under Republican voter ID proposals that require proving citizenship, no. Having an SSN does not imply US citizenship.

Morromist 29d ago

Actually you need a REAL ID to board a plane now. 20% of americans don't have them. They're pointless, take a lot of time and effort to aquire and are needlessly expensive. I don't have one because I have a passport.

hackyhacky 29d ago
> Actually you need a REAL ID to board a plane now. If you don't have a REAL ID or passport, you can just pay a $50 fee and get on the plane anyway. So whatever the REAL ID proves cannot be essential to security.

altacc 29d ago

In much of Europe you don't need ID for those, except a driving license, which happens to be an ID but primarily exists to prove you are qualified to drive. If you look young you are asked to prove your age if buying cigarettes or alcohol but the requirements for that are relatively low. Until recently in the UK you did not need any ID to vote, that was introduced recently as an echo to the US stolen election conspiracy, as demagogues love to steal ideas from each other.