4 ms·

I use NetBeans for development, and always feel like I'm slightly inferior for not relying on vim. There's certainly a lot to be said for it, but I really like

by benwerd 14y ago

I use NetBeans for development, and always feel like I'm slightly inferior for not relying on vim. There's certainly a lot to be said for it, but I really like (1) being able to zoom straight to the definition of one of my functions (can vim do this?), and (2) being able to code offline / on localhost sometimes. And I think the second point is my problem with this. Chances are, if I get a cheapo PC or a tablet to code on, it's because I'm traveling. If I'm traveling, chances are I'm not going to have a reliable Internet connection. I've got a mobile hotspot, etc etc, but sometimes the simple method - working locally - is the best.

sunnybythesea 14y ago
vim cscope works like a charm http://cscope.sourceforge.net/cscope_vim_tutorial.html http://cscope.sourceforge.net/cscope_vim_tutorial.html
- edwinnathaniel 14y ago
  Is cscope real-time or have to be re-run once new code has been added?
  - sunnybythesea 14y ago
    You need to run it once to initialize it. There is a way to set it up so it updates in real time as you change the files. However, I usually run it once for the entire repo after a major update. It takes less than 2 mins to build tags for a repository that is about 20gigs in size. It's fast and very efficient even if you use vim remotely over ssh. There are downsides of course and a bit of a learning curve, but once you get going, it's pretty effective.
WayneDB 14y ago
Don't feel inferior for not using vim. People who claim that vim/emacs are the ultimate environment typically have a very narrow world-view in my experience. There are absolutely no absolutes!
- sunnybythesea 14y ago
  I agree...eventually it's personal preference. Use whatever works for you. I gave up on vim multiple times before it finally started to make sense...now I use it on all my platforms and take my vimrc with me.
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  > There are absolutely no absolutes! and then: > People who claim that vim/emacs are the ultimate environment typically have a very narrow world-view in my experience. Yes, you add the word "typically" in there, so it's not technically an absolute, but really, what you're saying is not much better. I'm not going to tell you that you need to abandon your IDE, but I use a DDE centered around Vim, and I like to think that I don't necessarily have a narrow world-view as a result of that choice, thank you very much.
  - carbocation 14y ago
    That's not a response to his point. His point is not that vim users have a narrow worldview. His point is that people who claim that vim is the ultimate environment have a narrow worldview. Reading a tiny bit into what he said, he's judging those who would see their editor of choice as the ultimate, i.e., as seeing those who don't use it as using an inferior tool.
    - sp4rki 14y ago
      Well I claim vim is the ultimate editor (as it is my preference and opinion), and at the same time I can say that: Not only do I prefer Visual Studio when working on dot net stuff, AND not only do I prefer Eclipse most of the time when working with JAVA while using GUI Linux... but they're both most definitely a better choice than Vim in both cases. Using vim in both cases would be using the inferior tool. So he's wrong on his generalization. Moving along... Honestly, what is the damn point anyways? He made a completely useless comment based on a bs assumption that in all honestly sounds more like a person who just got frustrated and decided to go against the flow of the river. I find it very annoying. Specially since this discussion always seems to start because the other side starts making the same generalization over and over and over again. Now I'm more annoyed. Hah.
DanBC 14y ago
> I use NetBeans for development Tools are tools, and if you're using a hammer as a hammer it doesn't matter if it's a $12 hammer you got from your local hardware shop or if it's some exotic Estwing thing. (Estwing make nice tools, but their website? Wow. (http://www.estwingtools.co.uk/index.html http://www.estwingtools.co.uk/index.html) EDIT: I can't nest ().
- Zombieball 14y ago
  I think this might be their site: http://www.estwing.com/ http://www.estwing.com/ (looks like there is no co.uk version)
  - DanBC 14y ago
    Yes, thanks for that. It should have been obvious to me that Estwing is American and would be on a dotcom. Nested brackets meant my link didn't work, but http://www.estwingtools.co.uk/contact_us.html http://www.estwingtools.co.uk/contact_us.html is a valid site by "Map UK" who (I hope) have some distribution agreement for Estwing.
manishsharan 14y ago
VIM and NetBeans are two very different beasts. Netbeans is an Integrated Development Environment for Java (primarily) with excellent debugger, profiler and J2EE Serverin addition to all the code editing capabilities. If those functions are not important to your work, then go with vim/Emacs/Sublime Text 2 or whatever.
slurgfest 14y ago
You can use vim and gvim locally. Sharpening your tools is an investment where you trade time now for power later. Vim is very much an instance of that trade-off. It's a ridiculously flexible power tool. If you are a machine at driving nails with a rusty hammer and you are happy, then there's no reason to stop doing it that way.But if the reason you don't use vim is that you're scared of it, it's not as bad as you think. You don't have to be superior to learn it, you just need a week and an open mind.
sgharms 14y ago
1. You should know vi comfortably. When you get on a low space embedded system vi will usually be there: emacs is too space prodigal and forget any GUIs. 2. But vi isn't the best for iOS dev or J2EE and I recognize this. But my work is usually CLI or web, so this works for me. 3. Offline: REcently I've gotten an ubuntu running in dual boot...so ... keep your eye on my site, I may post soon.

by benwerd 14y ago

sunnybythesea 14y ago

vim cscope works like a charm http://cscope.sourceforge.net/cscope_vim_tutorial.html http://cscope.sourceforge.net/cscope_vim_tutorial.html

edwinnathaniel 14y ago
Is cscope real-time or have to be re-run once new code has been added?
- sunnybythesea 14y ago
  You need to run it once to initialize it. There is a way to set it up so it updates in real time as you change the files. However, I usually run it once for the entire repo after a major update. It takes less than 2 mins to build tags for a repository that is about 20gigs in size. It's fast and very efficient even if you use vim remotely over ssh. There are downsides of course and a bit of a learning curve, but once you get going, it's pretty effective.

WayneDB 14y ago

Don't feel inferior for not using vim. People who claim that vim/emacs are the ultimate environment typically have a very narrow world-view in my experience. There are absolutely no absolutes!

sunnybythesea 14y ago
I agree...eventually it's personal preference. Use whatever works for you. I gave up on vim multiple times before it finally started to make sense...now I use it on all my platforms and take my vimrc with me.
chimeracoder 14y ago
> There are absolutely no absolutes! and then: > People who claim that vim/emacs are the ultimate environment typically have a very narrow world-view in my experience. Yes, you add the word "typically" in there, so it's not technically an absolute, but really, what you're saying is not much better. I'm not going to tell you that you need to abandon your IDE, but I use a DDE centered around Vim, and I like to think that I don't necessarily have a narrow world-view as a result of that choice, thank you very much.
- carbocation 14y ago
  That's not a response to his point. His point is not that vim users have a narrow worldview. His point is that people who claim that vim is the ultimate environment have a narrow worldview. Reading a tiny bit into what he said, he's judging those who would see their editor of choice as the ultimate, i.e., as seeing those who don't use it as using an inferior tool.
  - sp4rki 14y ago
    Well I claim vim is the ultimate editor (as it is my preference and opinion), and at the same time I can say that: Not only do I prefer Visual Studio when working on dot net stuff, AND not only do I prefer Eclipse most of the time when working with JAVA while using GUI Linux... but they're both most definitely a better choice than Vim in both cases. Using vim in both cases would be using the inferior tool. So he's wrong on his generalization. Moving along... Honestly, what is the damn point anyways? He made a completely useless comment based on a bs assumption that in all honestly sounds more like a person who just got frustrated and decided to go against the flow of the river. I find it very annoying. Specially since this discussion always seems to start because the other side starts making the same generalization over and over and over again. Now I'm more annoyed. Hah.

DanBC 14y ago

> I use NetBeans for development Tools are tools, and if you're using a hammer as a hammer it doesn't matter if it's a $12 hammer you got from your local hardware shop or if it's some exotic Estwing thing. (Estwing make nice tools, but their website? Wow. (http://www.estwingtools.co.uk/index.html http://www.estwingtools.co.uk/index.html) EDIT: I can't nest ().

Zombieball 14y ago
I think this might be their site: http://www.estwing.com/ http://www.estwing.com/ (looks like there is no co.uk version)
- DanBC 14y ago
  Yes, thanks for that. It should have been obvious to me that Estwing is American and would be on a dotcom. Nested brackets meant my link didn't work, but http://www.estwingtools.co.uk/contact_us.html http://www.estwingtools.co.uk/contact_us.html is a valid site by "Map UK" who (I hope) have some distribution agreement for Estwing.

manishsharan 14y ago

VIM and NetBeans are two very different beasts. Netbeans is an Integrated Development Environment for Java (primarily) with excellent debugger, profiler and J2EE Serverin addition to all the code editing capabilities. If those functions are not important to your work, then go with vim/Emacs/Sublime Text 2 or whatever.

slurgfest 14y ago

You can use vim and gvim locally. Sharpening your tools is an investment where you trade time now for power later. Vim is very much an instance of that trade-off. It's a ridiculously flexible power tool. If you are a machine at driving nails with a rusty hammer and you are happy, then there's no reason to stop doing it that way.But if the reason you don't use vim is that you're scared of it, it's not as bad as you think. You don't have to be superior to learn it, you just need a week and an open mind.

sgharms 14y ago

1. You should know vi comfortably. When you get on a low space embedded system vi will usually be there: emacs is too space prodigal and forget any GUIs. 2. But vi isn't the best for iOS dev or J2EE and I recognize this. But my work is usually CLI or web, so this works for me. 3. Offline: REcently I've gotten an ubuntu running in dual boot...so ... keep your eye on my site, I may post soon.