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That's the fun thing about gold. It's literal gold, not numbers on a spreadsheet. Moving it really means moving it: bars are stamped and owned, and if the owner

That's the fun thing about gold. It's literal gold, not numbers on a spreadsheet. Moving it really means moving it: bars are stamped and owned, and if the owner wants to move them, those bars need to get transported to wherever the owner says they should be. It's also the idiotic thing about gold, a metal that has no more or less inherent monetary value than a fiat currency =)

lotsofpulp 29d ago
That is the non idiotic thing about gold, since it is not fiat, is not easy to produce, and it is easy to verify, it can be used as a currency in less stable times/places. It’s a redundancy. Perhaps bitcoin satisfies many of these properties without the high costs to secure and move gold, but it needs electricity and a network? https://www.macrotrends.net/1335/dollar-vs-gold-comparison-last-ten-years https://www.macrotrends.net/1335/dollar-vs-gold-comparison-l...
- megagpt2 29d ago
  Gold is a fiat currency because it has no inherent value.
  - lotsofpulp 29d ago
    That is not what fiat currency means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money
  - MiroslavPokorny 29d ago
    Gold has a lot of material uses, eg computer chips and other electrical equipment for starters.
Isamu 29d ago
>inherent monetary value I agree, the price of gold depends on demand like everything else. Although gold just has some inherent utility value in addition to scarcity that makes it less likely for the price to go to zero, other stuff like cryptocurrency have only scarcity and can go to zero much more easily.
NhanH 29d ago
Currency is inherently about trust: you believe it can be traded later for goods. The mechanism with fiat is that you need to trust your state and government. In gold, you trust that everyone is believing gold has value. And that it is commmon knowledge (in the logic sense [0]) Saying that gold has no more or less inherent monetary value than fiat currency assuming a magic wand that can change a large percentage of people's belief. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge_(logic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge_(logic)
- triceratops 29d ago
  Ammunition and canned goods actually have inherent monetary value. While not being fiat currency.
  - NhanH 29d ago
    Goods have inherent value. We are talking about currency.
xxs 29d ago
gold has quite the inherent value - no oxygen reaction (all electronics) and partly jewelry. if the gold has cheaper would be used quite alot due to being the only metal not oxidizing (the other one being platinum which is even rarer and comes from the same ore source)
- TheRealPomax 27d ago
  you're confusing "value as a material" with "value as a currency". Currency is made up. Material properties are not. "If gold was cheaper" is literally "yes, everyone could wake up tomorrow and just decide that's the case, and now it is." Just like a fiat currency.
mr_toad 29d ago
> It's also the idiotic thing about gold, a metal that has no more or less inherent monetary value than a fiat currency =) I don’t know why people keep repeating that. Half of gold production is used in industry and for jewellery. And gold has never lost its value the way that some paper currencies have. It’s not like anyone can print gold bars.
- benj111 29d ago
  The jewellery market stems from the 'inherent' value thing though. I think the OPs point is that gold is an arbitrary metal that has been infused with value, just like fiat currency is some paper that has been infused with value. Paper also has 'useful' uses, but that isn't underpinning the value of fiat currency. Yes, I'll grant that gold is stable in that it doesn't corroded , it's somewhat rare, etc, so it is better suited than other metals, there's still no intrinsic reason to value it though. I don't think this is a hill that either the op or I is willing to die on though. It is an observation of human behaviour, rather than a statement that gold _should not_ be the world store of value.
  - lotsofpulp 29d ago
    >Yes, I'll grant that gold is stable in that it doesn't corroded , it's somewhat rare, etc, so it is better suited than other metals, there's still no intrinsic reason to value it though. ...you just provided intrinsic reasons for why gold has value. Humans need to trade, bartering goods and services directly is less efficient than using a currency, and gold has qualities that make it more useful as a currency than other materials. It is the opposite of an arbitrary metal, it is a material that has specific desirable qualities hence chosen to be used as a currency by many societies.

lotsofpulp 29d ago

That is the non idiotic thing about gold, since it is not fiat, is not easy to produce, and it is easy to verify, it can be used as a currency in less stable times/places. It’s a redundancy. Perhaps bitcoin satisfies many of these properties without the high costs to secure and move gold, but it needs electricity and a network? https://www.macrotrends.net/1335/dollar-vs-gold-comparison-last-ten-years https://www.macrotrends.net/1335/dollar-vs-gold-comparison-l...

megagpt2 29d ago
Gold is a fiat currency because it has no inherent value.
- lotsofpulp 29d ago
  That is not what fiat currency means. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money
- MiroslavPokorny 29d ago
  Gold has a lot of material uses, eg computer chips and other electrical equipment for starters.

Isamu 29d ago

>inherent monetary value I agree, the price of gold depends on demand like everything else. Although gold just has some inherent utility value in addition to scarcity that makes it less likely for the price to go to zero, other stuff like cryptocurrency have only scarcity and can go to zero much more easily.

NhanH 29d ago

Currency is inherently about trust: you believe it can be traded later for goods. The mechanism with fiat is that you need to trust your state and government. In gold, you trust that everyone is believing gold has value. And that it is commmon knowledge (in the logic sense [0]) Saying that gold has no more or less inherent monetary value than fiat currency assuming a magic wand that can change a large percentage of people's belief. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge_(logic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge_(logic)

triceratops 29d ago
Ammunition and canned goods actually have inherent monetary value. While not being fiat currency.
- NhanH 29d ago
  Goods have inherent value. We are talking about currency.

xxs 29d ago

gold has quite the inherent value - no oxygen reaction (all electronics) and partly jewelry. if the gold has cheaper would be used quite alot due to being the only metal not oxidizing (the other one being platinum which is even rarer and comes from the same ore source)

TheRealPomax 27d ago
you're confusing "value as a material" with "value as a currency". Currency is made up. Material properties are not. "If gold was cheaper" is literally "yes, everyone could wake up tomorrow and just decide that's the case, and now it is." Just like a fiat currency.

mr_toad 29d ago

> It's also the idiotic thing about gold, a metal that has no more or less inherent monetary value than a fiat currency =) I don’t know why people keep repeating that. Half of gold production is used in industry and for jewellery. And gold has never lost its value the way that some paper currencies have. It’s not like anyone can print gold bars.

benj111 29d ago
The jewellery market stems from the 'inherent' value thing though. I think the OPs point is that gold is an arbitrary metal that has been infused with value, just like fiat currency is some paper that has been infused with value. Paper also has 'useful' uses, but that isn't underpinning the value of fiat currency. Yes, I'll grant that gold is stable in that it doesn't corroded , it's somewhat rare, etc, so it is better suited than other metals, there's still no intrinsic reason to value it though. I don't think this is a hill that either the op or I is willing to die on though. It is an observation of human behaviour, rather than a statement that gold _should not_ be the world store of value.
- lotsofpulp 29d ago
  >Yes, I'll grant that gold is stable in that it doesn't corroded , it's somewhat rare, etc, so it is better suited than other metals, there's still no intrinsic reason to value it though. ...you just provided intrinsic reasons for why gold has value. Humans need to trade, bartering goods and services directly is less efficient than using a currency, and gold has qualities that make it more useful as a currency than other materials. It is the opposite of an arbitrary metal, it is a material that has specific desirable qualities hence chosen to be used as a currency by many societies.