4 ms·

> but that an individual cannot participate in society or survive if the government decides to revoke the id What would happen today if your government revokes

> but that an individual cannot participate in society or survive if the government decides to revoke the id What would happen today if your government revokes a SSN which is your de facto "personal identification number" today? Can you still rent/buy a home? Can you have a job?

iamnothere 1mo ago
Some US citizens don’t even have SSNs, believe it or not. The Amish get by just fine.
- embedding-shape 1mo ago
  Is it generally considered that The Amish "participates in society"? I thought the whole point for them was that they're "outside of modern society", to some degree at least.
  - iamnothere 1mo ago
    They participate in their own society, which allows them to survive in their own way. In other countries, national IDs have often been followed by mandatory registration requirements for renting or owning property, employment, etc. At present there are ways to get around using ID for many things, and it should stay that way.
nobodyandproud 1mo ago
Before my time, but I believe SSN was and probably still is controversial in my circle. I definitely recall rumblings about it even 30 years ago. But while cash is printed (physical currency): Not having an SSN becomes a major impediment but not impossible to make transactions and survive. Our migrant workers—who are basically carrying white collar workers like me—are proof of this.
- embedding-shape 1mo ago
  Isn't all of those cases then also proof that if the SSN was a government ID instead, all of those things would have been the same? The ID wouldn't "impossible to make transactions and survive", just an impediment, just like not having a SSN is today. Point is, the US already basically have a de facto "ID card", they just don't call it as such (yet?), so claiming somehow correctly labeling this thing would make things worse or more difficult, doesn't make much sense.
  - dghlsakjg 1mo ago
    You can't really identify someone by their SSN. My card is literally just a piece of cardstock paper with a name and number, and no one has ever asked to see it. There is no photo. There is no security.
    - embedding-shape 1mo ago
      Say you go to your local bank today and ask to sign up for a new bank account, what sort of documents do they ask for? Passport? Drivers license?
      - dghlsakjg 1mo ago
        Government issued id with a photo is typically the requirement depending on the bank and their KYC. That can be a military id, passport, NEXUS card, DL, state ID.

iamnothere 1mo ago

Some US citizens don’t even have SSNs, believe it or not. The Amish get by just fine.

embedding-shape 1mo ago
Is it generally considered that The Amish "participates in society"? I thought the whole point for them was that they're "outside of modern society", to some degree at least.
- iamnothere 1mo ago
  They participate in their own society, which allows them to survive in their own way. In other countries, national IDs have often been followed by mandatory registration requirements for renting or owning property, employment, etc. At present there are ways to get around using ID for many things, and it should stay that way.

nobodyandproud 1mo ago

Before my time, but I believe SSN was and probably still is controversial in my circle. I definitely recall rumblings about it even 30 years ago. But while cash is printed (physical currency): Not having an SSN becomes a major impediment but not impossible to make transactions and survive. Our migrant workers—who are basically carrying white collar workers like me—are proof of this.

embedding-shape 1mo ago
Isn't all of those cases then also proof that if the SSN was a government ID instead, all of those things would have been the same? The ID wouldn't "impossible to make transactions and survive", just an impediment, just like not having a SSN is today. Point is, the US already basically have a de facto "ID card", they just don't call it as such (yet?), so claiming somehow correctly labeling this thing would make things worse or more difficult, doesn't make much sense.
- dghlsakjg 1mo ago
  You can't really identify someone by their SSN. My card is literally just a piece of cardstock paper with a name and number, and no one has ever asked to see it. There is no photo. There is no security.
  - embedding-shape 1mo ago
    Say you go to your local bank today and ask to sign up for a new bank account, what sort of documents do they ask for? Passport? Drivers license?
    - dghlsakjg 1mo ago
      Government issued id with a photo is typically the requirement depending on the bank and their KYC. That can be a military id, passport, NEXUS card, DL, state ID.