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Job concentration predates the automobile by some amount. The concept of suburbs largely originates from the development of streetcars (very much not free!), al

Job concentration predates the automobile by some amount. The concept of suburbs largely originates from the development of streetcars (very much not free!), although the suburban sprawl associated with US cities nowadays arises from the private automobiles. Note that streetcar suburbs are generally associated with medium-density development: it allowed urban centers to grow larger without having to really pack everyone into high-density tenements (though that still happened in many cases). White flight and the automobile means that post-WW2 suburbs become large low-density suburbs, focused on detached single-family homes. In essence, the "unlimited free road consumption" created the disaggregation of decentralized, low-density suburban regions from the high-density commercial districts, which predates that concept by several decades.

estearum 1mo ago
You're saying the same thing that I'm saying. Subsidized roads creates an arbitrage that allows people to live away from their jobs. This concentrates commercial activity, i.e. it creates commercial-only zones and residential-only zones that are far away from each other. Prior to that, people lived and worked in the same area. These were very dense areas, but the economic activity of the region wouldn't be described as concentrated because there was no gradient to low-activity surroundings. Obviously actual zoning policies play a (significant) role here as well.
- pchristensen 1mo ago
  I don't think you're saying the same thing. Transportation allows people to live far from where they work, but that's everything from horses to bullet trains. Free roads allow for dispersed uses but doesn't affect how dense of segregated they are. Beyond the cost and space requirements to park everyone's cars. Zoning is doing almost all the work you're describing - even with the presence of cars and subsidized highways, the built environment would look very different without zoning and with more market forces.
  - estearum 1mo ago
    No free roads create the cost-free arbitrage between cheaper land in the outer areas and more expensive urban core. And no, cost of land and ease of transit is a far more powerful force than zoning. Look at Houston.

estearum 1mo ago

You're saying the same thing that I'm saying. Subsidized roads creates an arbitrage that allows people to live away from their jobs. This concentrates commercial activity, i.e. it creates commercial-only zones and residential-only zones that are far away from each other. Prior to that, people lived and worked in the same area. These were very dense areas, but the economic activity of the region wouldn't be described as concentrated because there was no gradient to low-activity surroundings. Obviously actual zoning policies play a (significant) role here as well.

pchristensen 1mo ago
I don't think you're saying the same thing. Transportation allows people to live far from where they work, but that's everything from horses to bullet trains. Free roads allow for dispersed uses but doesn't affect how dense of segregated they are. Beyond the cost and space requirements to park everyone's cars. Zoning is doing almost all the work you're describing - even with the presence of cars and subsidized highways, the built environment would look very different without zoning and with more market forces.
- estearum 1mo ago
  No free roads create the cost-free arbitrage between cheaper land in the outer areas and more expensive urban core. And no, cost of land and ease of transit is a far more powerful force than zoning. Look at Houston.