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If I knew god existed, I would ask him why he let the world get into such a state, and which of omnipotent, benevolent and omniscient he is not

foldr 25d ago
"I don't know".
AnimalMuppet 25d ago
The Christian/biblical answer is that he didn't make it like this. He made it perfect, and we rebelled against him, and we made it like this. And why did he allow that? Because he allows us free will, and he allows us the consequences of our free will. That is, he chooses to restrain his omnipotence. I'm going to guess that you find that to be a "just so" story. But it's not as simple a story as you made it. And if you don't think God exists, then many of the problems - war and pollution and exploitation and violence - are still our doing. We don't escape.
- voidUpdate 25d ago
  A child is allowed free will, but a parent will stop them killing other children, hopefully
- JohnFen 25d ago
  But that's an answer from a particular sect, not from a god.
  - AnimalMuppet 25d ago
    Only if that particular sect's holy book is not from God. You probably assume that. But recognize that you are, in fact, assuming that - that they all are not from God or gods.
    - JohnFen 25d ago
      > Only if that particular sect's holy book is not from God. Every sect considers their holy book(s) to be from god, so that claim is meaningless unless you are a member of that sect. In terms of explaining "why does god allow evil to happen", that's the answer given by a subset of Christian sects. It's far from the only answer given by all religions (and nonreligious philosophies), or even all Christians. I was just pointing out that you were offering only one of many different answers. Since god has yet to offer any unambiguous explanations or clarifications, it's probably wise to be aware that there is no one accepted answer here.
      - AnimalMuppet 24d ago
        No, the claim is not meaningless. Is any of the holy books actually written (dictated/inspired) by God or a god? That is an objective claim, true or false on its own merit, regardless of whether you are a member of that sect. But of course there are two problems. 1) There are so many claims, how do you check them all? 2) How do you actually check even one of them? What is your criterion for deciding? > Since god has yet to offer any unambiguous explanations or clarifications... Has he? That's the question. You're assuming the answer. (Unless you're leaning on "unambiguous", and saying that, since there's no one clear book, there's no unambiguous answer.)
    - voidUpdate 24d ago
      I mean, isn't the bible written by apostles etc? Not God? Matthew, Mark, Luke and John just wrote down what Jesus said God told him, and Christians treat that as (literal) gospel. Is there a part of the bible that says, unambiguously, "I, God, am writing this down, and here is what to do and what not to do in order to be a good Christian"
      - AnimalMuppet 24d ago
        Pretty close. There are parts that clearly say "God said". There are parts that are history, that are not literally "God said this". But then you get to II Timothy 3:16, which says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness". It claims that God inspired the authors. That kind of bootstraps the rest of the book into "God said" territory.
- ompogUe 25d ago
  Seems he's neither benevolent nor omniscient if he didn't know we'd "rebel", and then was so shallow about punishing us for it.

foldr 25d ago

"I don't know".

AnimalMuppet 25d ago

The Christian/biblical answer is that he didn't make it like this. He made it perfect, and we rebelled against him, and we made it like this. And why did he allow that? Because he allows us free will, and he allows us the consequences of our free will. That is, he chooses to restrain his omnipotence. I'm going to guess that you find that to be a "just so" story. But it's not as simple a story as you made it. And if you don't think God exists, then many of the problems - war and pollution and exploitation and violence - are still our doing. We don't escape.

voidUpdate 25d ago
A child is allowed free will, but a parent will stop them killing other children, hopefully
JohnFen 25d ago
But that's an answer from a particular sect, not from a god.
- AnimalMuppet 25d ago
  Only if that particular sect's holy book is not from God. You probably assume that. But recognize that you are, in fact, assuming that - that they all are not from God or gods.
  - JohnFen 25d ago
    > Only if that particular sect's holy book is not from God. Every sect considers their holy book(s) to be from god, so that claim is meaningless unless you are a member of that sect. In terms of explaining "why does god allow evil to happen", that's the answer given by a subset of Christian sects. It's far from the only answer given by all religions (and nonreligious philosophies), or even all Christians. I was just pointing out that you were offering only one of many different answers. Since god has yet to offer any unambiguous explanations or clarifications, it's probably wise to be aware that there is no one accepted answer here.
    - AnimalMuppet 24d ago
      No, the claim is not meaningless. Is any of the holy books actually written (dictated/inspired) by God or a god? That is an objective claim, true or false on its own merit, regardless of whether you are a member of that sect. But of course there are two problems. 1) There are so many claims, how do you check them all? 2) How do you actually check even one of them? What is your criterion for deciding? > Since god has yet to offer any unambiguous explanations or clarifications... Has he? That's the question. You're assuming the answer. (Unless you're leaning on "unambiguous", and saying that, since there's no one clear book, there's no unambiguous answer.)
  - voidUpdate 24d ago
    I mean, isn't the bible written by apostles etc? Not God? Matthew, Mark, Luke and John just wrote down what Jesus said God told him, and Christians treat that as (literal) gospel. Is there a part of the bible that says, unambiguously, "I, God, am writing this down, and here is what to do and what not to do in order to be a good Christian"
    - AnimalMuppet 24d ago
      Pretty close. There are parts that clearly say "God said". There are parts that are history, that are not literally "God said this". But then you get to II Timothy 3:16, which says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness". It claims that God inspired the authors. That kind of bootstraps the rest of the book into "God said" territory.
ompogUe 25d ago
Seems he's neither benevolent nor omniscient if he didn't know we'd "rebel", and then was so shallow about punishing us for it.