3 ms·
The openness of PC clones was a mistake IBM failed to regain control from, everyone was like Apple.
by pjmlp 1mo ago
The openness of PC clones was a mistake IBM failed to regain control from, everyone was like Apple.
- Pet_Ant 1mo agoThis is true and I don’t know why it’s downvoted. IBM was notoriously obsessed with lock-in, they just bungled it with the IBM PC because they needed to move fast because they didn’t want it to slip away from them. So, they used off the shelf components that anyone else could buy. The lenient contract with Microsoft and the unexpected to them ruling on reverse engineering the BIOS sealed their fate. But no company wants to compete in a commodity, they all want to be monopolies. All the Unix vendors tried to be common enough to be a selling point but idiosyncratic enough to lock in their clients. Apple isn’t nefarious… they are the default. Now, if we want to support their ambitions with our wallets is another question
- xattt 1mo agoHow should have IBM acted if they wanted to keep their lock-in?
- pjmlp 1mo agoThey did try to keep the lock in, with the release of PS/2 and MCA architecture, which many think it relates only to keyboard and mice ports. However it was too late to regain control and PS/2 alongside MCA was largely ignored. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PS/2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PS/2
- ahartmetz 1mo agoNefarious and default aren't incompatible properties. If companies (especially large, public ones) were benevolent by default, a lot of laws and institutions would not be needed anymore.
- throwawayffffas 1mo ago> Apple isn’t nefarious… they are the default That's not true, well the second part is not true. it's not the default, it's a choice they made, there is no default. They could have opted for maximum interoperability and openess. Sk Hynix does not work with only sk hynix motherboards(I don't know if they even make motherboards), Intel cpus do not only work with Intel NICs. AMD GPUs do not only work with AMD CPUs. Nvidia GPUs do not require an imaginary Nvidia OS. Hell windows is happy to work with whatever hardware you throw at it, but Macs nowadays have soldered ram and storage. And you can't install MacOS on any hardware you might like. Getting files in or out of an iPhone without a Mac was a nightmare just a few years ago and I am confident it still is.
- detourdog 1mo agoThe default the GP is probably referencing is the early days all hardware vendors produced their own OS. Apple maintained the status quo as MS changed the status quo. The innovation MS really developed was the software license for OS's.
- unknownfuture 1mo agoIt's downvoted because it reads as though IBM made a mistake the commenter thinks they should've never made, as opposed to a mistake from IBMs perspective given their business strategy at the time. That is, it appears to tacitly agree with, and chide IBM for failing to defended, closed, walled-garden ecosystems. That's certainly not what it seems they meant. It's just how one might initially read it and downvote.
- pjmlp 1mo agoIt was certainly a mistake to base the original IBM PC hardware design in easily obtained electronics, and hope the BIOS copyright would be enough to hold out clones, unlike previous IBM hardware.
- throwawayffffas 1mo agoBut it's not their mistake at all there is nothing they could do, companies went out there and reversed engineered BIOS. They couldn't possibly stop them.
- unknownfuture 1mo agoAnd yet Apple succesfully destroyed the grey box clone market in their space. Clearly it was indeed possible: https://www.wired.com/1997/09/apple-kills-clone-market/ https://www.wired.com/1997/09/apple-kills-clone-market/
- throwawayffffas 1mo agoThe first reversed engineered version of BIOS was released in 1982 by Columbia Data Products. https://www.ntari.org/post/how-clean-room-reverse-engineering-built-the-modern-tech-industry https://www.ntari.org/post/how-clean-room-reverse-engineerin...
- eloisant 1mo agoA mistake for IBM maybe, but a blessing for computing.
- pjmlp 1mo agoIf you consider MS-DOS and Windows 3.x a blessing.
- detourdog 1mo agoRemember the world had DOS before MS bought it and sold it to IBM.
- pjmlp 1mo agoThe world hardly cared about QDOS. In my bubble, the world was about ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64 and Amiga, Atari ST, before PC clones became relevant. All equally vertically integrated as Apple.
- detourdog 1mo agoThe world hardly cared about DOS. QDOS,cp/m or otherwise.
- pjmlp 1mo agoIndeed, so what blessing?
- detourdog 1mo agoI still prefer vertically integrated OS's. Documentation and troubleshooting is more difficult when spread across vendors.
- spankibalt 1mo agoYou talk of vertically integrated contraptions. What are they for?
- fitsumbelay 1mo ago> The openness of PC clones ... I'm kind of struck my this because it reminds me of the some contrast between the two platforms during the mid-90s. While no PC manufacturer controlled their HW stack like Apple did, making Macs more expensive than PCs by almost double, Windows was the only viable OS option as Linux distros had trouble supporting print functionality. Windows was never not hot garbage. What Mac users got for their money in 1996 was out-of-the-box media production capacity in the form of CD quality (if not DAT on some models) audio and video (though not full-size broadcast quality yet), TTS and -- I _believe_ -- voice rec and of course a superior UX that turned mere users into babbling near-cultish apostles. PCs had superiority in 3D modeling and animation as well as gaming likely helped along by industry adoption (even Steve Jobs' Pixar went PC) but I don't remember any independent PC-based 3D animation folks like I recall independent Mac based visual designers, sound designers/musicians and video producers. Mac users got their money's worth especially if they were creatives IMHO
- pjmlp 1mo agoI remember the predating two decades when the options were broader than two, and the large majority vertically integrated.
- throwawayffffas 1mo agoIt wasn't a mistake there was nothing they could do to prevent it. The clones happened with cleanroom engineering which is legal.
- pjmlp 1mo agoThat is how Compaq managed to avoid the copyright lawsuit, afterwards there were enough options, besides the failed PS/2 attempt, OS/2, or even forcing a new hardware stack.
- throwawayffffas 1mo agoThere is a great documentary[1] about Compaq, that includes this bit of their history I believe. And an okaish tv show where the first season is very loosely based on Compaqs clean room engineering effort. [2] [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4938484/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4938484/ [2] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2543312/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2543312/
- tim333 1mo agoThey could have not allowed MS DOS and gone with and OS they contolled.