4 ms·

I want to add that the comment is also funny to me because it and the blog post are very relatable to me. I don't mean to dismiss it at all. It's really importa

I want to add that the comment is also funny to me because it and the blog post are very relatable to me. I don't mean to dismiss it at all. It's really important to get a good diagnosis for anything like this and not dismiss it or lock into the wrong diagnosis because of your own tunnel vision. You wrote "the test is quick, easy, and painless" but I also want to note that it's not always. Depending on your country, parents, specific doctor, etc it can be very difficult to get a proper diagnosis and help. In some places a big criteria is diagnosis during childhood so if you're 30 or 40 you might have no chance. Or a chance but it depends on your parents retroactively answering a questionnaire, or finding an old report card with the right words. As you said it's life changing to get the right help and I encourage everyone to pursue this.

jaggederest 1mo ago
The thing is, the test is super quick and easy. And then they throw 50 procedurally complex and tedious tasks at someone who can definitionally not do that, and they know that. Kafkaesque. Btw no criticism implied on my end, I'm just now constitutionally incapable of not telling people they should get screened. Hmmm I wonder why I have difficulty resisting that urge...
- johnwalkr 1mo ago
  I think I get your point. It's cruel to require Kafkaesque testing and that just makes it not worth it try. But too simple of a test can also misdiagnose. The chance to be diagnosed with an appropriate gate varies greatly based on where you live and which doctor you can see and more. It can be anything from a 5 minute conversation, to 6 months of inconvenience, to no chance of even existing in your lifetime, to suck it up and don't ask because your career will end.
  - jaggederest 1mo ago
    Right let me be very explicit: TOVA or equivalent are basically "play video games for 10 minutes as a part of your diagnosis" like the OP, the kafkaesque part is getting the appointment, and getting them administered, getting the diagnosis confirmed, going through the records and getting the prescriptions, everything around it :) they're actually pretty sophisticated tests, despite their palatability - I think if they had better ones they'd obviously use them.
    - tacticus 1mo ago
      "Sorry the psych is no longer available today. your appointment has been moved to the next available booking in 9 months time"
      - jaggederest 1mo ago
        Or even better, "We have one available psychologist and they kinda don't believe in ADHD, so they'll see you but not actually grade the test correctly, so you'll have to try again, and as a bonus get labeled medication seeking". Not my experience, but...
NortySpock 1mo ago
" diagnosis during childhood so if you're 30 or 40 you might have no chance " Huh? You don't have to be tested as-a-child, you don't have to call up your fourth grade teacher. You can self report your subjective experience. "Did you have these problems as a child? Have you always had trouble doing your homework? Did stressing out about homework enable you to do the homework?" They ask the question a few different ways typically. I get it, perhaps it is different in your area, but I get the impression that an adult ADHD diagnosis is far from impossible.
- jaggederest 1mo ago
  In some countries it's almost impossible (I don't have any direct experience but I've heard tale that in e.g. aus/nz, east asia, south asia, etc people give up before getting diagnosed often), and my understanding is that in Europe it's virtually unheard of to have an adult diagnosis. In the US, at least, it ranges from difficult to straightforward, but that's not true everywhere
  - mkl 1mo ago
    In NZ it's easy, and some GPs can do it as of earlier this year.
    - jaggederest 1mo ago
      IDK I'm just going by a friend moving there and not being able to get any of her existing medication prescribed, even though she's been diagnosed for literally 40 years.
  - Thlom 1mo ago
    Europe here. I have several friends that got diagnosed with ADHD as adults. If you try to do it through the public system it's very difficult to even get an appointment because there's months long waiting lists. Basically if you have a job and function somewhat OK in normal life you won't be diagnosed in the public system. If you do get through it can be a long process where they want to interview your parents etc to determine if you had symptoms as a child. But you can also get a diagnosis through private practitioners and some of them function almost like diagnosis mills. A couple of video interviews and tests and you are done.
subarctic 1mo ago
Why is it so life changing to get help? What kind of help is there besides meds?
- mfru 1mo ago
  If you pair meds with therapy and adjusting your life according to the things you learn about yourself through the lens of the diagnosis your quality of life can increase dramatically (at least it did for me).
- msteffen 1mo ago
  Therapy, which (at least for me) has focused dually on adhd management strategies that can be very helpful (including, in particular, enhancing relevant social skills related to setting expectations and boundaries) and on identifying and modifying negative self-image issues and counterproductive learned behaviors (e.g. various forms of self-directed hostility that attempt to assert control over a neurophysiological issue). It’s funny, I went to therapy a lot of times before I found someone I could stick with, and if I were to give my past self a list of what I’ve gotten from therapy, I think I would’ve been unimpressed. Nevertheless, I’ve noticed that I’m more confident and calmer, and it has definitely improved my relationships. There’s a kind of virtuous cycle that happens where you replace a grumpy mindset where you’re always mad at yourself for not meeting other peoples’ expectations and always mad at other people for making your life hard, with a confident mindset where you understand yourself, are therefore comfortable relating to other people about your abilities and needs, and can focus on putting yourself in situations where you’ll be successful.
  - msteffen 1mo ago
    lol, we’re all writing the same thing. I’ll give you one example, because I particularly liked it. My therapist always talks about separating people from problems, and I never had any idea wtf he was talking about. And then he gave me this exercise where he was like, “let’s construct a narrative where this person’s eccentric personality makes them really good at something specific. Where would you expect a person like that to encounter friction and how would you manage it?” It was sort of fun, we talked about how Arthur Schawlow (who co-invented the laser and won the Nobel prize) was banned from driving on Stanford campus and had to be chauffeured. And I finally understood what he was talking about; you can access this perspective for anybody by constructing such a narrative. What if everybody’s a misunderstood genius at something? Why not? How would you live in such a world? One insight among many.

jaggederest 1mo ago

The thing is, the test is super quick and easy. And then they throw 50 procedurally complex and tedious tasks at someone who can definitionally not do that, and they know that. Kafkaesque. Btw no criticism implied on my end, I'm just now constitutionally incapable of not telling people they should get screened. Hmmm I wonder why I have difficulty resisting that urge...

johnwalkr 1mo ago
I think I get your point. It's cruel to require Kafkaesque testing and that just makes it not worth it try. But too simple of a test can also misdiagnose. The chance to be diagnosed with an appropriate gate varies greatly based on where you live and which doctor you can see and more. It can be anything from a 5 minute conversation, to 6 months of inconvenience, to no chance of even existing in your lifetime, to suck it up and don't ask because your career will end.
- jaggederest 1mo ago
  Right let me be very explicit: TOVA or equivalent are basically "play video games for 10 minutes as a part of your diagnosis" like the OP, the kafkaesque part is getting the appointment, and getting them administered, getting the diagnosis confirmed, going through the records and getting the prescriptions, everything around it :) they're actually pretty sophisticated tests, despite their palatability - I think if they had better ones they'd obviously use them.
  - tacticus 1mo ago
    "Sorry the psych is no longer available today. your appointment has been moved to the next available booking in 9 months time"
    - jaggederest 1mo ago
      Or even better, "We have one available psychologist and they kinda don't believe in ADHD, so they'll see you but not actually grade the test correctly, so you'll have to try again, and as a bonus get labeled medication seeking". Not my experience, but...

NortySpock 1mo ago

" diagnosis during childhood so if you're 30 or 40 you might have no chance " Huh? You don't have to be tested as-a-child, you don't have to call up your fourth grade teacher. You can self report your subjective experience. "Did you have these problems as a child? Have you always had trouble doing your homework? Did stressing out about homework enable you to do the homework?" They ask the question a few different ways typically. I get it, perhaps it is different in your area, but I get the impression that an adult ADHD diagnosis is far from impossible.

jaggederest 1mo ago
In some countries it's almost impossible (I don't have any direct experience but I've heard tale that in e.g. aus/nz, east asia, south asia, etc people give up before getting diagnosed often), and my understanding is that in Europe it's virtually unheard of to have an adult diagnosis. In the US, at least, it ranges from difficult to straightforward, but that's not true everywhere
- mkl 1mo ago
  In NZ it's easy, and some GPs can do it as of earlier this year.
  - jaggederest 1mo ago
    IDK I'm just going by a friend moving there and not being able to get any of her existing medication prescribed, even though she's been diagnosed for literally 40 years.
- Thlom 1mo ago
  Europe here. I have several friends that got diagnosed with ADHD as adults. If you try to do it through the public system it's very difficult to even get an appointment because there's months long waiting lists. Basically if you have a job and function somewhat OK in normal life you won't be diagnosed in the public system. If you do get through it can be a long process where they want to interview your parents etc to determine if you had symptoms as a child. But you can also get a diagnosis through private practitioners and some of them function almost like diagnosis mills. A couple of video interviews and tests and you are done.

subarctic 1mo ago

Why is it so life changing to get help? What kind of help is there besides meds?

mfru 1mo ago
If you pair meds with therapy and adjusting your life according to the things you learn about yourself through the lens of the diagnosis your quality of life can increase dramatically (at least it did for me).
msteffen 1mo ago
Therapy, which (at least for me) has focused dually on adhd management strategies that can be very helpful (including, in particular, enhancing relevant social skills related to setting expectations and boundaries) and on identifying and modifying negative self-image issues and counterproductive learned behaviors (e.g. various forms of self-directed hostility that attempt to assert control over a neurophysiological issue). It’s funny, I went to therapy a lot of times before I found someone I could stick with, and if I were to give my past self a list of what I’ve gotten from therapy, I think I would’ve been unimpressed. Nevertheless, I’ve noticed that I’m more confident and calmer, and it has definitely improved my relationships. There’s a kind of virtuous cycle that happens where you replace a grumpy mindset where you’re always mad at yourself for not meeting other peoples’ expectations and always mad at other people for making your life hard, with a confident mindset where you understand yourself, are therefore comfortable relating to other people about your abilities and needs, and can focus on putting yourself in situations where you’ll be successful.
- msteffen 1mo ago
  lol, we’re all writing the same thing. I’ll give you one example, because I particularly liked it. My therapist always talks about separating people from problems, and I never had any idea wtf he was talking about. And then he gave me this exercise where he was like, “let’s construct a narrative where this person’s eccentric personality makes them really good at something specific. Where would you expect a person like that to encounter friction and how would you manage it?” It was sort of fun, we talked about how Arthur Schawlow (who co-invented the laser and won the Nobel prize) was banned from driving on Stanford campus and had to be chauffeured. And I finally understood what he was talking about; you can access this perspective for anybody by constructing such a narrative. What if everybody’s a misunderstood genius at something? Why not? How would you live in such a world? One insight among many.