3 ms·

> Anyway, we'll get the whole non-nat with IPv6, let's see what that brings I'll believe it when I see it. So far it doesn't look like IPv6 will win anytime s

by eru 2mo ago

> Anyway, we'll get the whole non-nat with IPv6, let's see what that brings I'll believe it when I see it. So far it doesn't look like IPv6 will win anytime soon.

lstodd 2mo ago
Well, any 3G or later mobile backbone is SIP+SCTP over IPv6. So in many ways it won already
- eru 2mo ago
  Weird, I used to remember that going to test-ipv6.com on my mobile (on 4G and 5G) used to fail all the tests. But today it passes. Well, good to know!
- hdgvhicv 2mo ago
  My phone, on 4g, is not IPv6 At home it can be if I connect t to my ip6 ssid, but there’s a stateful firewall which may as well nat.
  - lstodd 2mo ago
    What your phone shows to app land is entirely different thing. I'm talking about the backbone.
silon42 2mo ago
I absolutely plan to NAT my home, I don't see a good reason to do otherwise. I don't see a reason why my machine addresses should change over time... then again, most shouldn't have direct internet access anyway, a http proxy on firewall should be enough.
- vel0city 2mo ago
  > I don't see a reason why my machine addresses should change over time You can still use fixed addresses locally if you want, its not like IPv6 is forcing you to use the prefix assigned if you just want to communicate locally over never-changing addresses. You can have your computers be fd01::1, fd01::2, fd01::3, etc, and talk to everything on their local addresses when wanting to stay local. And then when they want to talk on the public internet they can just use whatever public addresses like 2600:1700:53c2:2573:4c:c001:dead:beef based on whatever prefix your ISP gives you. Its not like your devices have to only have a single IP address.
  - ninkendo 2mo ago
    Source address selection still favors GUA over ULA by default in every major operating system… If you run both you’re almost certainly going to see a lot of GUA addresses in logs where you only allow LAN traffic. Especially if you’re using mDNS/.local for your hostnames. The only way to be sure your internal stuff only ever uses ULA’s is to not give them GUA’s, and now you’re doing NAT. (I don’t personally run my network as ULA-only, I do ULA+GUA as you describe, but I had to basically give up on being able to reliably tie traffic logs to a known source… hosts in my LAN always seem to use a GUA to talk to each other when discovering over mDNS, which of course means they use privacy addresses by default. My ULA uses DHCP so that I can get stable addresses and know who is who, but it’s useless when things just decide to use the GUA anyway.)
grumbel 2mo ago
And even if it wins, it won't matter much, since it is only one of many issues with the current Internet that prevents people from connecting to each other. Even with IPv6 you'd still have no way to find the other person and the moment they hop between networks, their IPv6 address won't stay the same either. Ultimately I think none of this will be solved at the low level, it needs something like Iroh or libp2p where you build a new network on top of the Internet infrastructure, so that you can have things like persistent cryptographic identities and addresses that you can carry with you, largely independent of the underlying network architecture.
- eru 2mo ago
  On a tangent: compare persistent cryptographic identities with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-record_messaging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-record_messaging
Plasmoid 2mo ago
It's already won. Over 50% of Internet users are on ipv6.
- teddyh 2mo ago
  Source: <https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html> In the US, it’s currently over 60%: <https://stats.labs.apnic.net/ipv6/US https://stats.labs.apnic.net/ipv6/US>

by eru 2mo ago

> Anyway, we'll get the whole non-nat with IPv6, let's see what that brings I'll believe it when I see it. So far it doesn't look like IPv6 will win anytime soon.

lstodd 2mo ago

Well, any 3G or later mobile backbone is SIP+SCTP over IPv6. So in many ways it won already

eru 2mo ago
Weird, I used to remember that going to test-ipv6.com on my mobile (on 4G and 5G) used to fail all the tests. But today it passes. Well, good to know!
hdgvhicv 2mo ago
My phone, on 4g, is not IPv6 At home it can be if I connect t to my ip6 ssid, but there’s a stateful firewall which may as well nat.
- lstodd 2mo ago
  What your phone shows to app land is entirely different thing. I'm talking about the backbone.

silon42 2mo ago

I absolutely plan to NAT my home, I don't see a good reason to do otherwise. I don't see a reason why my machine addresses should change over time... then again, most shouldn't have direct internet access anyway, a http proxy on firewall should be enough.

vel0city 2mo ago
> I don't see a reason why my machine addresses should change over time You can still use fixed addresses locally if you want, its not like IPv6 is forcing you to use the prefix assigned if you just want to communicate locally over never-changing addresses. You can have your computers be fd01::1, fd01::2, fd01::3, etc, and talk to everything on their local addresses when wanting to stay local. And then when they want to talk on the public internet they can just use whatever public addresses like 2600:1700:53c2:2573:4c:c001:dead:beef based on whatever prefix your ISP gives you. Its not like your devices have to only have a single IP address.
- ninkendo 2mo ago
  Source address selection still favors GUA over ULA by default in every major operating system… If you run both you’re almost certainly going to see a lot of GUA addresses in logs where you only allow LAN traffic. Especially if you’re using mDNS/.local for your hostnames. The only way to be sure your internal stuff only ever uses ULA’s is to not give them GUA’s, and now you’re doing NAT. (I don’t personally run my network as ULA-only, I do ULA+GUA as you describe, but I had to basically give up on being able to reliably tie traffic logs to a known source… hosts in my LAN always seem to use a GUA to talk to each other when discovering over mDNS, which of course means they use privacy addresses by default. My ULA uses DHCP so that I can get stable addresses and know who is who, but it’s useless when things just decide to use the GUA anyway.)

grumbel 2mo ago

And even if it wins, it won't matter much, since it is only one of many issues with the current Internet that prevents people from connecting to each other. Even with IPv6 you'd still have no way to find the other person and the moment they hop between networks, their IPv6 address won't stay the same either. Ultimately I think none of this will be solved at the low level, it needs something like Iroh or libp2p where you build a new network on top of the Internet infrastructure, so that you can have things like persistent cryptographic identities and addresses that you can carry with you, largely independent of the underlying network architecture.

eru 2mo ago
On a tangent: compare persistent cryptographic identities with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-record_messaging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-record_messaging

Plasmoid 2mo ago

It's already won. Over 50% of Internet users are on ipv6.

teddyh 2mo ago
Source: <https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html> In the US, it’s currently over 60%: <https://stats.labs.apnic.net/ipv6/US https://stats.labs.apnic.net/ipv6/US>