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I don't know if it is gloating so much as it is recognition that unlike most injustice that happens in the world the people most responsible for it are going to

I don't know if it is gloating so much as it is recognition that unlike most injustice that happens in the world the people most responsible for it are going to suffer at least some of the consequences along with the hoi polloi. A refreshing change of pace, even if the end result is horribly tragic for everyone.

tsunamifury 1mo ago
I know this is controversial but I doubt this heat wave is entirely human made. Europe has gone through long arid periods in this past.
- sfn42 1mo ago
  If you scroll down past the "Outlooks" header, you will see a chart that makes it abundantly clear what's going on and why. https://www.dpg-physik.de/veroeffentlichungen/publikationen/stellungnahmen-der-dpg/klima-energie/klimaaufruf/stellungnahme_de-en https://www.dpg-physik.de/veroeffentlichungen/publikationen/...
  - tsunamifury 1mo ago
    As someone who hope global warming is man-made becuase that woudl be FIXABLE at least in theory, this is EXTREMELY deceptive report and graph and for the sake of humanity these scientists should be doing MUCH better. Comparing sample rates during the spike to sample rates for the rest of the graph? Hidden inside those sample rates can be dramatic changes (some of which we know if that ARE NOT IN THIS GRAPH) for example the little ice age and the volcanic warming periods of europe as recently as the last 1000 years which dramatically changed the climate. Im not arguing against human-climate change, I'm arguing that this type of junk science does no one any favors.
    - sfn42 1mo ago
      The little ice age is in the graph, it was just completely insignificant on a global scale, as opposed to global warming which as you can see from the graph is extremely significant on a global scale. You are expecting to see the little ice age on the graph because you think that was a comparable event to global warming, but the fact is it wasn't. Local changes due to global warming are even more significant than the global average shows, for example the arctic has, on average, warmed more than 3 times as much as the global average. This chart shows direct measurements where available (generally like 1800 to present), our best estimates for earlier temperatures, and expected future temperatures based on what we've seen so far. Here is Google's AI description of DPG: > the German Physical Society (Deutsche Physikalische Gesellschaft, or DPG) is held in exceptionally high regard and is recognized globally as one of the most prestigious scientific organizations in the world That's the organization whose work you refer to as "junk science".
      - tsunamifury 1mo ago
        We are discussing aridification in europe, a specifically local event? Also one that can happen regardless of global warming and has happened severalt times in the last 5000 years. Do you not even track what conversation context you're in before going off? edit: im editing here to respond to the absurd response below. The reponder, while lecturing rabidly missed several things like the difference between aridification and heat, local vs global, and europe not being the world. I want to point out that its poeple exactly like this poster who ruin global warming debates with demonstratably false, confused, or foolish comments. Is polution bad and causing warming, yes most likely. Has the commentor below proven that? no. And in fact repeated danced around proving it while insulting me. This person is not the ally you need.
        sfn42 1mo ago
        A local event that is closely related to the unprecedented anthropogenic global warming that is indisputably responsible for the half decade of back-to-back-to-back heat record breakage streak we're currently on yes. And no, as far as we know this has never happened before unless you count mass extinctions millions of years ago where nearly everything on the planet died. That's what breaking a record means, we have never seen these temperatures before and now we're breaking those records every. single. year. And for the record, in those mass extinctions the global warming happened over thousands of years. This global warming is happening over decades. Also I forgot to address this point in your earlier comment: > As someone who hope global warming is man-made becuase that woudl be FIXABLE at least in theory The fact that I am able to shoot you in the face does not imply that I am able to fix you afterwards. We are in no way capable of removing all the carbon we have added to the atmosphere within a reasonable timeframe, it would probably take about a thousand to a few thousand years if we really went for it. And as I've shown you with the graph, global warming is indisputably, without a doubt, anthropogenic which means man-made. Arguing about whether this heat wave is related to the severe global warming we are currently is experiencing is absolutely asinine, there is literally not a single fucking thing about the climate on our planet right now that wouldn't be different without climate change. The heat wave in Europe would be less hot, and/or it would be shorter, or it wouldn't be here at all. The general severe warming Europe has seen over the past decade would not have occurred.
- pseudohadamard 1mo ago
  We have actually had one similar high-CO2 event in the past, which wasn't human made. It's called the Permian Extinction, and eliminated around 90% of all life on earth.
  - pfdietz 1mo ago
    The reduction in biomass at the boundary was possibly much greater. For example, no coal was formed for 10 million years, and the shell part of marine sediments was reduced by 97%.

tsunamifury 1mo ago

I know this is controversial but I doubt this heat wave is entirely human made. Europe has gone through long arid periods in this past.

sfn42 1mo ago
If you scroll down past the "Outlooks" header, you will see a chart that makes it abundantly clear what's going on and why. https://www.dpg-physik.de/veroeffentlichungen/publikationen/stellungnahmen-der-dpg/klima-energie/klimaaufruf/stellungnahme_de-en https://www.dpg-physik.de/veroeffentlichungen/publikationen/...
- tsunamifury 1mo ago
  As someone who hope global warming is man-made becuase that woudl be FIXABLE at least in theory, this is EXTREMELY deceptive report and graph and for the sake of humanity these scientists should be doing MUCH better. Comparing sample rates during the spike to sample rates for the rest of the graph? Hidden inside those sample rates can be dramatic changes (some of which we know if that ARE NOT IN THIS GRAPH) for example the little ice age and the volcanic warming periods of europe as recently as the last 1000 years which dramatically changed the climate. Im not arguing against human-climate change, I'm arguing that this type of junk science does no one any favors.
  - sfn42 1mo ago
    The little ice age is in the graph, it was just completely insignificant on a global scale, as opposed to global warming which as you can see from the graph is extremely significant on a global scale. You are expecting to see the little ice age on the graph because you think that was a comparable event to global warming, but the fact is it wasn't. Local changes due to global warming are even more significant than the global average shows, for example the arctic has, on average, warmed more than 3 times as much as the global average. This chart shows direct measurements where available (generally like 1800 to present), our best estimates for earlier temperatures, and expected future temperatures based on what we've seen so far. Here is Google's AI description of DPG: > the German Physical Society (Deutsche Physikalische Gesellschaft, or DPG) is held in exceptionally high regard and is recognized globally as one of the most prestigious scientific organizations in the world That's the organization whose work you refer to as "junk science".
    - tsunamifury 1mo ago
      We are discussing aridification in europe, a specifically local event? Also one that can happen regardless of global warming and has happened severalt times in the last 5000 years. Do you not even track what conversation context you're in before going off? edit: im editing here to respond to the absurd response below. The reponder, while lecturing rabidly missed several things like the difference between aridification and heat, local vs global, and europe not being the world. I want to point out that its poeple exactly like this poster who ruin global warming debates with demonstratably false, confused, or foolish comments. Is polution bad and causing warming, yes most likely. Has the commentor below proven that? no. And in fact repeated danced around proving it while insulting me. This person is not the ally you need.
      - sfn42 1mo ago
        A local event that is closely related to the unprecedented anthropogenic global warming that is indisputably responsible for the half decade of back-to-back-to-back heat record breakage streak we're currently on yes. And no, as far as we know this has never happened before unless you count mass extinctions millions of years ago where nearly everything on the planet died. That's what breaking a record means, we have never seen these temperatures before and now we're breaking those records every. single. year. And for the record, in those mass extinctions the global warming happened over thousands of years. This global warming is happening over decades. Also I forgot to address this point in your earlier comment: > As someone who hope global warming is man-made becuase that woudl be FIXABLE at least in theory The fact that I am able to shoot you in the face does not imply that I am able to fix you afterwards. We are in no way capable of removing all the carbon we have added to the atmosphere within a reasonable timeframe, it would probably take about a thousand to a few thousand years if we really went for it. And as I've shown you with the graph, global warming is indisputably, without a doubt, anthropogenic which means man-made. Arguing about whether this heat wave is related to the severe global warming we are currently is experiencing is absolutely asinine, there is literally not a single fucking thing about the climate on our planet right now that wouldn't be different without climate change. The heat wave in Europe would be less hot, and/or it would be shorter, or it wouldn't be here at all. The general severe warming Europe has seen over the past decade would not have occurred.
pseudohadamard 1mo ago
We have actually had one similar high-CO2 event in the past, which wasn't human made. It's called the Permian Extinction, and eliminated around 90% of all life on earth.
- pfdietz 1mo ago
  The reduction in biomass at the boundary was possibly much greater. For example, no coal was formed for 10 million years, and the shell part of marine sediments was reduced by 97%.