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> In the US we have tech companies complying with sketchy DHS subpoenas that don’t require warrants. We have DoJ targeting political enemies. We have FISA mass

by dofm 1mo ago

> In the US we have tech companies complying with sketchy DHS subpoenas that don’t require warrants. We have DoJ targeting political enemies. We have FISA mass surveillance. You also have a president who has just said he will "report" a journalist to the FCC for "rebuke or punishment". I regret to inform people that fear over people cracking your encryption is quite niche, at this point; you have a looming fascist regime and should be more afraid of the $5 wrench.

tetris11 1mo ago
> $5 wrench Ref for anyone looking: https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- SOLAR_FIELDS 1mo ago
  $5 wrench already in play, US citizen was detained at the border recently for simply wiping their phone
  - mc32 1mo ago
    "What, like with a cloth or something?" Destruction of potential evidence of a crime is a crime. Obviously here there is nuance and the courts can determine if this is the right interpretation or not. If he had compromising information and he reasonable suspicion he’d be asked to unlock his phone he should have “wiped” it way before he got to the border.
    - parineum 1mo ago
      Destruction of evidence is a crime. They'd have to prove there was evidence.
      - mc32 1mo ago
        Yes, they would have to prove that there was incriminating data on the phone. However, destroying potential evidence before there is suspicion of a crime is also a crime if done with intent to undermine a future investigation. It's quite unadvisable to destroy data in front of any sort of law enforcement. Last ditch effort? Sure, you better your odds but it's not ideal. If you have evidence of a crime, you know, wipe it way before you need to hand things over for examination and be in the position of having to destroy data as they knock on your door.
        ryandrake 1mo ago
        You keep saying "potential evidence." What does that even mean? If I factory reset my phone right now, am I guilty of destroying "potential evidence?" Do you have "potential evidence" on any of your devices? Let's not make up phrases to help justify what they were doing. There was either an actual crime committed, and wiping the phone destroyed real evidence. Or there was not. You can't just consider all data everywhere to be "potential evidence" while you look around for some kind of crime that it's evidence of. If it was evidence, what was the crime?
        parineum 1mo ago
        The implication they are making is that the person _intended_ to destroy potential evidence on the phone. That the person felt there was evidence on it that needed to be destroyed to hide a crime. IMO, even if that's actually illegal, there's zero way to prove it that the fifth amendment doesn't address.
        IAmBroom 1mo ago
        The 5th has been distorted by the courts so much, that I wouldn't assume any novel interpretation would stand (and wiping data to avoid self-implicating is novel). For instance, apparently answering questions up until a point at which you don't severely threatens your legal ability to invoke the 5th.
    - warrantisall 1mo ago
      The person was not charged with destruction of evidence, rather destruction of property to prevent a seizure. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.351975/gov.uscourts.gand.351975.1.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.35... To be charged with destruction of evidence, the data contained in the device has to be justified as such. It appears this was not the case, note this person was not indicted or accused of anything else too.
semiquaver 1mo ago
I’ll have you know that due to inflation $5 is no longer a reasonable price even for a very cheap wrench!
- dofm 1mo ago
  Tariffs on imported steel products. Perhaps the most ironic adversary of the $5 wrench strategy.
- iso1631 1mo ago
  It's the government, I'm sure the wrench will cost $50,000 and some oligarch will be taking 99% of that as a back hander.
hn_submit 1mo ago
Trump will be gone in two years and may even become a lame duck in two months. I'd be more worried about European democracies which don't put a limit on the tenure of a president or prime minister. It was a close call in Hungary and Poland. If Orban had won the elections he could've manipulated Hungarian institutions to such a degree that he'd be president for life with unlimited powers. The same has already occurred in Turkiye. I chuckle at the Turks protesting against Erdogan. That ship sailed about 15 years ago, there's no way to remove him from power. The only thing they can do is wait until he passes.

by dofm 1mo ago

tetris11 1mo ago

> $5 wrench Ref for anyone looking: https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/

SOLAR_FIELDS 1mo ago
$5 wrench already in play, US citizen was detained at the border recently for simply wiping their phone
- mc32 1mo ago
  "What, like with a cloth or something?" Destruction of potential evidence of a crime is a crime. Obviously here there is nuance and the courts can determine if this is the right interpretation or not. If he had compromising information and he reasonable suspicion he’d be asked to unlock his phone he should have “wiped” it way before he got to the border.
  - parineum 1mo ago
    Destruction of evidence is a crime. They'd have to prove there was evidence.
    - mc32 1mo ago
      Yes, they would have to prove that there was incriminating data on the phone. However, destroying potential evidence before there is suspicion of a crime is also a crime if done with intent to undermine a future investigation. It's quite unadvisable to destroy data in front of any sort of law enforcement. Last ditch effort? Sure, you better your odds but it's not ideal. If you have evidence of a crime, you know, wipe it way before you need to hand things over for examination and be in the position of having to destroy data as they knock on your door.
      - ryandrake 1mo ago
        You keep saying "potential evidence." What does that even mean? If I factory reset my phone right now, am I guilty of destroying "potential evidence?" Do you have "potential evidence" on any of your devices? Let's not make up phrases to help justify what they were doing. There was either an actual crime committed, and wiping the phone destroyed real evidence. Or there was not. You can't just consider all data everywhere to be "potential evidence" while you look around for some kind of crime that it's evidence of. If it was evidence, what was the crime?
        parineum 1mo ago
        The implication they are making is that the person _intended_ to destroy potential evidence on the phone. That the person felt there was evidence on it that needed to be destroyed to hide a crime. IMO, even if that's actually illegal, there's zero way to prove it that the fifth amendment doesn't address.
        IAmBroom 1mo ago
        The 5th has been distorted by the courts so much, that I wouldn't assume any novel interpretation would stand (and wiping data to avoid self-implicating is novel). For instance, apparently answering questions up until a point at which you don't severely threatens your legal ability to invoke the 5th.
  - warrantisall 1mo ago
    The person was not charged with destruction of evidence, rather destruction of property to prevent a seizure. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.351975/gov.uscourts.gand.351975.1.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.35... To be charged with destruction of evidence, the data contained in the device has to be justified as such. It appears this was not the case, note this person was not indicted or accused of anything else too.

semiquaver 1mo ago

I’ll have you know that due to inflation $5 is no longer a reasonable price even for a very cheap wrench!

dofm 1mo ago
Tariffs on imported steel products. Perhaps the most ironic adversary of the $5 wrench strategy.
iso1631 1mo ago
It's the government, I'm sure the wrench will cost $50,000 and some oligarch will be taking 99% of that as a back hander.

hn_submit 1mo ago

Trump will be gone in two years and may even become a lame duck in two months. I'd be more worried about European democracies which don't put a limit on the tenure of a president or prime minister. It was a close call in Hungary and Poland. If Orban had won the elections he could've manipulated Hungarian institutions to such a degree that he'd be president for life with unlimited powers. The same has already occurred in Turkiye. I chuckle at the Turks protesting against Erdogan. That ship sailed about 15 years ago, there's no way to remove him from power. The only thing they can do is wait until he passes.