previous discussion in 2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25023673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25023673 This 2025 discussion links to this too

previous discussion in 2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25023673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25023673 This 2025 discussion links to this too https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44117779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44117779