3 ms·

Urgh I was about to buy one for GOS. Maybe back to iPhone it is.

by sdcfgy 1mo ago

grapheneos 1mo ago
You can get a Pixel 10 or wait for the upcoming Motorola flagship with GrapheneOS support. Pixel 11 only has an incremental CPU upgrade and the same GPU as the Pixel 11 anyway. It isn't much of a hardware upgrade and is even a downgrade for RAM with the base Pro devices. It's more expensive than the Pixel 10 was too. The upcoming Motorola flagship will have a dramatically better CPU and GPU than the Pixel 11 and competitive cameras. It will still have 7 years of updates, MTE and a secure element with the features used by GrapheneOS. Motorola Signature (2026) is the predecessor not quite meeting our requirements mainly due to lack of MTE but also lack of other features which had to be developed.
- matheusmoreira 1mo ago
  Eagerly waiting for the Motorola flagship! Will it be released worldwide?
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    It should be more globally available than Pixels. Look at the availability of the existing Motorola Signature (2026) or the more recently launched Razr Fold (2026) and Razr Ultra (2026). Those 2026 devices won't support GrapheneOS, but the successor the Motorola Signature will. We don't know precise details about folding devices yet.
- WinstonSmith84 1mo ago
  Motorola doesn't have a great track records for flagships smartphones. I will keep finger crossed that we won't have to choose again between security and features but either way it's a great news, and I truly hope that GrapheneOS will be adopted by more manufacturers in the future
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    Motorola Signature (2026) was well received. They committed to 7 years of updates and provided top tier smartphones cameras which were previous limitations. Razr Fold (2026) has the top rated camera for a folding device on DXOMARK, unlike the huge camera downgrade for folding Pixels. https://www.dxomark.com/smartphones/ https://www.dxomark.com/smartphones/ We aren't sure when the first Motorola folding devices we can support will be released, but that will happen.
    - aboringusername 1mo ago
      One detail that remains to be seen is whether you'll cater to the EU market, and how the impact of the memory crisis will impact the possible consumer-base. It's a weak market and sales are likely to be only the 'hardcore' users who demand/require security. I sincerely hope there are no numbers you need to hit to keep the partnership going. Sales are not likely to be at first significant, people are extremely price sensitive and I'm not sure GrapheneOS support will draw people in enough to justify the obviously now inflated costs to cover component price increases (and tariffs). Pixels offer affordable options which is why unless you can cater to that market, a Motorola-only GrapheneOS future will only gain traction if you're able to get a cheaper low/mid-range option out there, akin to the Pixel A-series.
      - ysnp 1mo ago
        Much of that is out of their hands unfortunately. Motorola don't use the latest Snapdragon SoCs in most of their more affordable models, and Qualcomm are the only ones so far (outside Samsung/Google) who seem willing to support what is needed (MTE, Android SE imp etc.)
- prism56 1mo ago
  One thing about Motorola. They aren't known for supporting devices long term with fast updates. Is there any guarantee that in 4 years this device will be getting monthly patches, source and builds regularly?
  - lawn 1mo ago
    That's the point of GrapheneOS. They've been excellent at providing fast updates and long-term support for their supported devices. Let Motorola do the hardware and GrapheneOS the software.
    - its-summertime 1mo ago
      As far as I know, only Motorola is given access to the driver source code for all the chips, which then as part of using it, they are obligated to release it, which then GrapheneOS can then access and use it. As a result, Motorola's software support is just as important as Motorola's hardware
      - grapheneos 1mo ago
        We won't have to depend on Motorola's public OS releases for access to the firmware and drivers as we do for Pixels. We'll also have access to a lot more than what's mandatory to provide due to GPLv2.
        its-summertime 1mo ago
        Oh that is very exciting to hear!
    - izacus 1mo ago
      GrapheneOS is fully dependant on the OEM of the phone to supply them with up to date drivers and can't support their builds longer than that.
      - grapheneos 1mo ago
- OJFord 1mo ago
  Is the Motorola partnership that they're ensuring support in the phone, and helping the port with docs/support perhaps, or is it even actually shipping with GrapheneOS?
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    They're implementing all of the features required by GrapheneOS, are helping us port GrapheneOS to the devices and may help us maintain it. They'll provide us with the drivers and firmware needed to support it too. Selling devices with GrapheneOS is planned but the details and timeline aren't worked out.
    - tadfisher 1mo ago
      Wouldn't OHA agreements prevent shipping a non-Google-certified Android? Unless you mean a future device with GrapheneOS might potentially go through CTS and ship with Google apps preinstalled?
      - grapheneos 1mo ago
        OEMs are fully allowed to include official support for GrapheneOS and sell batches of devices to companies selling those devices with GrapheneOS. It isn't hard to work around Google's licensing terms. It's already being done by multiple OEMs today. Google's licensing terms are also clearly a blatant violation of antitrust law. The licensing terms have already been invalidated in multiple countries including South Korea. Samsung is no longer bound by the same terms, which isn't fair to other OEMs.
    - fooqux 1mo ago
      > Selling devices with GrapheneOS is planned but the details and timeline aren't worked out. I hope they get worked out in short order. I'd love to buy one preconfigured if for no other reason then I'd like to show my support. It also shows more of a commitment by Motorola. Harder to suddenly forget about providing you with what you need if they're selling gOS preinstalled.
    - 1mo ago
matheusmoreira 1mo ago
Same here! I had everything lined up to import the phone just for GrapheneOS! Google just can't help being a fucking disappointment at every single opportunity!
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  You can get a Pixel 10 or wait for the upcoming Motorola flagship with GrapheneOS support. Pixel 11 only has an incremental CPU upgrade and the same GPU as the Pixel 11 anyway. It isn't much of a hardware upgrade and is even a downgrade for RAM with the base Pro devices. It's more expensive than the Pixel 10 was too. The upcoming Motorola flagship will have a dramatically better CPU and GPU than the Pixel 11 and competitive cameras. It will still have 7 years of updates, MTE and a secure element with the features used by GrapheneOS. Motorola Signature (2026) is the predecessor not quite meeting our requirements mainly due to lack of MTE but also lack of other features which had to be developed.
inigyou 1mo ago
Just buy whichever device GOS does support right now. It's always been very picky about device support.
- ysnp 1mo ago
  They have bare minimum sane standards for device support but it seems picky from the outside because most Android OEMs are incompetent.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    [flagged]
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      GrapheneOS doesn't require any unusual security features. It only requires industry standard security features which are widely acknowledged as being important. There hasn't been a non-Pixel device meeting our listed requirements yet but Motorola's 2026 flagships are close and at least one will meet all our requirements and be officially supported in 2027.
      - wolvoleo 1mo ago
        How are those features industry standard if most of the industry doesn't have them? Serious question. I applaud you guys aiming high but it is high IMO. But I do worry about the cost of entry. The pixel a series were just really good value. A Motorola flagship phone is too expensive for me.
        grapheneos 1mo ago
        MTE is a standard ARM security feature. Simply using standard ARM cores and cache was enough to provide MTE and that's why the Pixel 8 was able to provide it. Pixel 8 through Pixel 10a have MTE and so does the iPhone 17. iPhones have above 50% usage share in the US and various other countries along with at least around 30% in most of Europe.

Urgh I was about to buy one for GOS. Maybe back to iPhone it is.

by sdcfgy 1mo ago

Urgh I was about to buy one for GOS. Maybe back to iPhone it is.

You can get a Pixel 10 or wait for the upcoming Motorola flagship with GrapheneOS support. Pixel 11 only has an incremental CPU upgrade and the same GPU as the Pixel 11 anyway. It isn't much of a hardware upgrade and is even a downgrade for RAM with the base Pro devices. It's more expensive than the Pixel 10 was too. The upcoming Motorola flagship will have a dramatically better CPU and GPU than the Pixel 11 and competitive cameras. It will still have 7 years of updates, MTE and a secure element with the features used by GrapheneOS. Motorola Signature (2026) is the predecessor not quite meeting our requirements mainly due to lack of MTE but also lack of other features which had to be developed.

matheusmoreira 1mo ago
Eagerly waiting for the Motorola flagship! Will it be released worldwide?
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  It should be more globally available than Pixels. Look at the availability of the existing Motorola Signature (2026) or the more recently launched Razr Fold (2026) and Razr Ultra (2026). Those 2026 devices won't support GrapheneOS, but the successor the Motorola Signature will. We don't know precise details about folding devices yet.
WinstonSmith84 1mo ago
Motorola doesn't have a great track records for flagships smartphones. I will keep finger crossed that we won't have to choose again between security and features but either way it's a great news, and I truly hope that GrapheneOS will be adopted by more manufacturers in the future
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  Motorola Signature (2026) was well received. They committed to 7 years of updates and provided top tier smartphones cameras which were previous limitations. Razr Fold (2026) has the top rated camera for a folding device on DXOMARK, unlike the huge camera downgrade for folding Pixels. https://www.dxomark.com/smartphones/ https://www.dxomark.com/smartphones/ We aren't sure when the first Motorola folding devices we can support will be released, but that will happen.
  - aboringusername 1mo ago
    One detail that remains to be seen is whether you'll cater to the EU market, and how the impact of the memory crisis will impact the possible consumer-base. It's a weak market and sales are likely to be only the 'hardcore' users who demand/require security. I sincerely hope there are no numbers you need to hit to keep the partnership going. Sales are not likely to be at first significant, people are extremely price sensitive and I'm not sure GrapheneOS support will draw people in enough to justify the obviously now inflated costs to cover component price increases (and tariffs). Pixels offer affordable options which is why unless you can cater to that market, a Motorola-only GrapheneOS future will only gain traction if you're able to get a cheaper low/mid-range option out there, akin to the Pixel A-series.
    - ysnp 1mo ago
      Much of that is out of their hands unfortunately. Motorola don't use the latest Snapdragon SoCs in most of their more affordable models, and Qualcomm are the only ones so far (outside Samsung/Google) who seem willing to support what is needed (MTE, Android SE imp etc.)
prism56 1mo ago
One thing about Motorola. They aren't known for supporting devices long term with fast updates. Is there any guarantee that in 4 years this device will be getting monthly patches, source and builds regularly?
- lawn 1mo ago
  That's the point of GrapheneOS. They've been excellent at providing fast updates and long-term support for their supported devices. Let Motorola do the hardware and GrapheneOS the software.
  - its-summertime 1mo ago
    As far as I know, only Motorola is given access to the driver source code for all the chips, which then as part of using it, they are obligated to release it, which then GrapheneOS can then access and use it. As a result, Motorola's software support is just as important as Motorola's hardware
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      We won't have to depend on Motorola's public OS releases for access to the firmware and drivers as we do for Pixels. We'll also have access to a lot more than what's mandatory to provide due to GPLv2.
      - its-summertime 1mo ago
        Oh that is very exciting to hear!
  - izacus 1mo ago
    GrapheneOS is fully dependant on the OEM of the phone to supply them with up to date drivers and can't support their builds longer than that.
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
OJFord 1mo ago
Is the Motorola partnership that they're ensuring support in the phone, and helping the port with docs/support perhaps, or is it even actually shipping with GrapheneOS?
- grapheneos 1mo ago
  They're implementing all of the features required by GrapheneOS, are helping us port GrapheneOS to the devices and may help us maintain it. They'll provide us with the drivers and firmware needed to support it too. Selling devices with GrapheneOS is planned but the details and timeline aren't worked out.
  - tadfisher 1mo ago
    Wouldn't OHA agreements prevent shipping a non-Google-certified Android? Unless you mean a future device with GrapheneOS might potentially go through CTS and ship with Google apps preinstalled?
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      OEMs are fully allowed to include official support for GrapheneOS and sell batches of devices to companies selling those devices with GrapheneOS. It isn't hard to work around Google's licensing terms. It's already being done by multiple OEMs today. Google's licensing terms are also clearly a blatant violation of antitrust law. The licensing terms have already been invalidated in multiple countries including South Korea. Samsung is no longer bound by the same terms, which isn't fair to other OEMs.
  - fooqux 1mo ago
    > Selling devices with GrapheneOS is planned but the details and timeline aren't worked out. I hope they get worked out in short order. I'd love to buy one preconfigured if for no other reason then I'd like to show my support. It also shows more of a commitment by Motorola. Harder to suddenly forget about providing you with what you need if they're selling gOS preinstalled.
  - 1mo ago

matheusmoreira 1mo ago

Same here! I had everything lined up to import the phone just for GrapheneOS! Google just can't help being a fucking disappointment at every single opportunity!

grapheneos 1mo ago
You can get a Pixel 10 or wait for the upcoming Motorola flagship with GrapheneOS support. Pixel 11 only has an incremental CPU upgrade and the same GPU as the Pixel 11 anyway. It isn't much of a hardware upgrade and is even a downgrade for RAM with the base Pro devices. It's more expensive than the Pixel 10 was too. The upcoming Motorola flagship will have a dramatically better CPU and GPU than the Pixel 11 and competitive cameras. It will still have 7 years of updates, MTE and a secure element with the features used by GrapheneOS. Motorola Signature (2026) is the predecessor not quite meeting our requirements mainly due to lack of MTE but also lack of other features which had to be developed.

inigyou 1mo ago

Just buy whichever device GOS does support right now. It's always been very picky about device support.

ysnp 1mo ago
They have bare minimum sane standards for device support but it seems picky from the outside because most Android OEMs are incompetent.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  [flagged]
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    GrapheneOS doesn't require any unusual security features. It only requires industry standard security features which are widely acknowledged as being important. There hasn't been a non-Pixel device meeting our listed requirements yet but Motorola's 2026 flagships are close and at least one will meet all our requirements and be officially supported in 2027.
    - wolvoleo 1mo ago
      How are those features industry standard if most of the industry doesn't have them? Serious question. I applaud you guys aiming high but it is high IMO. But I do worry about the cost of entry. The pixel a series were just really good value. A Motorola flagship phone is too expensive for me.
      - grapheneos 1mo ago
        MTE is a standard ARM security feature. Simply using standard ARM cores and cache was enough to provide MTE and that's why the Pixel 8 was able to provide it. Pixel 8 through Pixel 10a have MTE and so does the iPhone 17. iPhones have above 50% usage share in the US and various other countries along with at least around 30% in most of Europe.