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It’s like next.js but for backend. Personally not for me. These are very productive once you learn the shape they expect. But the wheel needs to be reinvented

It’s like next.js but for backend. Personally not for me. These are very productive once you learn the shape they expect. But the wheel needs to be reinvented on how to do everything. I ran have straight forward verbose code with no hidden control flow

virgil_disgr4ce 1mo ago
Am I missing something? The entire point of next.js is that it's backend+frontend in one project
- apsurd 1mo ago
  that’s likely the promise but it’s so confusing and high cognitive overhead to maintain that backend <-> frontend relationship. ‘use client’ - i think the special sauce for why people use nextjs is all frontend based. the frontend that comes from the backend. nextjs dx is a special kind of hell. disclaimer: im just a simple rails guy.
  - chrysoprace 1mo ago
    Next.js is a poor choice for a client-side application. It is first and foremost a server-side framework, and trying to force it to be client-side is to work against it. There are so many better options than Next.js for dedicated client-side front-ends.
    - hirako2000 1mo ago
      Nextjs is also a bundler for web applications. And it deploys the front end assets. It's yet another backend framework, added that it only runs on vercel infrastructure. There are better front end and back end servers, those that simply rely on nodejs to serve. Next.js does that, without vercel.
  - virgil_disgr4ce 1mo ago
    I don't understand this perspective. I've developed, delivered and maintained countless Next.js projects and never come close to considering it "high cognitive overhead." It's among the nicest DX I've experienced. It has a lot of features, I guess, but you don't have to use them if you don't like them. Next.js has very little to do with the frontend. The frontend is literally just react, which is why I commented in the first place. People keep acting like it's a "frontend framework" which doesn't make any sense at all.
    - apsurd 1mo ago
      React is a frontend framework. How do you get around that? It's invented entirely to handle client-side UX and reactive DOM updates which have to be DOM because it for the browser which is a frontend. Are you saying nextjs is the backend and react is just react, it's not nextjs' fault? I'd say we disagree on the simplicity then: hydration, nextjs API reinventions of every interaction else 'use client' as an escape hatch which means it runs on the client but then what does the non 'use client' code do if nextjs is not a client-facing framework?
jodacola 1mo ago
> once you learn the shape they expect I’m reminded of this essay discussing frameworks versus libraries [0]. [0] https://tomasp.net/blog/2015/library-frameworks/ https://tomasp.net/blog/2015/library-frameworks/
NoItsDanger 1mo ago
I’ve been saying for years we need CCR (Client Centric Rendering). What we do is have the server just serve the page and let the client handle most of the rendering. It’s novel and innovative
- anon7000 1mo ago
  Smells like SPA
- shunia_huang 1mo ago
  Isn't this html + javascript?
socialest 1mo ago
I let the LLM tokens flow. Usually it ends up saving me innovation tokens.

virgil_disgr4ce 1mo ago

Am I missing something? The entire point of next.js is that it's backend+frontend in one project

apsurd 1mo ago
that’s likely the promise but it’s so confusing and high cognitive overhead to maintain that backend <-> frontend relationship. ‘use client’ - i think the special sauce for why people use nextjs is all frontend based. the frontend that comes from the backend. nextjs dx is a special kind of hell. disclaimer: im just a simple rails guy.
- chrysoprace 1mo ago
  Next.js is a poor choice for a client-side application. It is first and foremost a server-side framework, and trying to force it to be client-side is to work against it. There are so many better options than Next.js for dedicated client-side front-ends.
  - hirako2000 1mo ago
    Nextjs is also a bundler for web applications. And it deploys the front end assets. It's yet another backend framework, added that it only runs on vercel infrastructure. There are better front end and back end servers, those that simply rely on nodejs to serve. Next.js does that, without vercel.
- virgil_disgr4ce 1mo ago
  I don't understand this perspective. I've developed, delivered and maintained countless Next.js projects and never come close to considering it "high cognitive overhead." It's among the nicest DX I've experienced. It has a lot of features, I guess, but you don't have to use them if you don't like them. Next.js has very little to do with the frontend. The frontend is literally just react, which is why I commented in the first place. People keep acting like it's a "frontend framework" which doesn't make any sense at all.
  - apsurd 1mo ago
    React is a frontend framework. How do you get around that? It's invented entirely to handle client-side UX and reactive DOM updates which have to be DOM because it for the browser which is a frontend. Are you saying nextjs is the backend and react is just react, it's not nextjs' fault? I'd say we disagree on the simplicity then: hydration, nextjs API reinventions of every interaction else 'use client' as an escape hatch which means it runs on the client but then what does the non 'use client' code do if nextjs is not a client-facing framework?

jodacola 1mo ago

> once you learn the shape they expect I’m reminded of this essay discussing frameworks versus libraries [0]. [0] https://tomasp.net/blog/2015/library-frameworks/ https://tomasp.net/blog/2015/library-frameworks/

NoItsDanger 1mo ago

I’ve been saying for years we need CCR (Client Centric Rendering). What we do is have the server just serve the page and let the client handle most of the rendering. It’s novel and innovative

anon7000 1mo ago
Smells like SPA
shunia_huang 1mo ago
Isn't this html + javascript?

socialest 1mo ago

I let the LLM tokens flow. Usually it ends up saving me innovation tokens.