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The thing I miss the most about Eve Online is the immersive free market economy. I long for a true, in-depth economic MMO more than the space veneer around the

by sph 1mo ago

The thing I miss the most about Eve Online is the immersive free market economy. I long for a true, in-depth economic MMO more than the space veneer around the order book. Buy low, sell high. Specialize in industry, trading, transportation. Add a little bit of light PvP to inject chaos and it's more fun than playing the stock market. (I am actually designing such a game, but I'm open to suggestions) My main activity in the game was stealing loot from under carebears' noses to sell for profit. A true rat scouring the battlefields for scraps. That must say a lot about me.

jvuygbbkuurx 1mo ago
Usually I don't care about the economy in MMOs, but in New World it was fun and different when it launched. I played almost exclusively for the economy. Buy and sell orders and separate auction houses between cities. There was many unexpected ways to make money with trading and crafting. The only major source of gold was a single main story quest early in the game, so if you weren't careful you would go broke and struggle. The economy wasn't that advanced, but it was fun watching the players ping pong back and forth with supply and demand.
- sph 1mo ago
  The crafting systems were so trivial that didn't make the economy game of New World particularly engaging. One core mechanic I seek is the division of labor; if everyone can and is expected to become a master in every skill, there is no niche to corner, and trivialises the experience. There are very few games (actually, only EVE comes to mind with its skill system) that require you to specialize if you want to compete over everybody else.
knicholes 1mo ago
Dune: Awakening tried this. Was kind of fun while it lasted (and before the bug stole all of my resources I was trying to sell. The support was zero help on getting that resolved. That killed it for me immediately).
squigz 1mo ago
What has changed about the EVE economy that you don't like? > Buy low, sell high. Specialize in industry, trading, transportation I did all of this, quite profitably and for quite a long time, in EVE?
- sph 1mo ago
  I don't like how EVE is run, and the pay-to-win mechanics added over the years to entice the whales. I'm looking at the problem with the eyes of a prospective game dev, and saying that there should be more games focused on free market economy, which is often just a half-arsed mechanic on the side, not the core game.
  - laughing_man 1mo ago
    I played EVE for many years, and I really hated the addition of skill injectors. When I first started playing, the only way to get your skills up was to spend the time training them. Now it just takes real money cash. There's a legitimate argument for some P2W mechanics, though. To keep a game going you need new players, and if you're looking at losing every PvP encounter for years as you skill up your character you probably won't stay.
    - squigz 1mo ago
      The thing with EVE is that, even with all the ISK and SP in the game, you can't just buy your way to a win - you can't buy skill. You can have perfect skills and buy the best ship and modules and all that, but if you don't know how to fly, you're going to lose your ship immediately and it won't even be a fight. That, coupled with your second paragraph (the new player experience being so rough) and I've never really been too upset about the stuff CCP sells.
  - lstodd 1mo ago
    Problem with EVE is that they did not have a solution for the problem of resource accumulation from the start. It was mitigated to some degree by great wars of old, and then wormhole space, but then they a) sold out to koreans with their interesting approach to MMOs, and b) merged the chinese shard. This did not help at all. Now.. Py3 is nice, and I guess that move signals that at last they pay attention to engine instead of bolting on useless p2w crap, but to really revive eve this is not it. In my opinion (joined EVE in 2006, still own a JF and few carriers there), what is needed is a massive sink for all the accumulated assets. Idk, expand the universe like tenfold. Then it would be fun again. edit: also ditch all the nullsec sov mechanics and revert to something resembling the pre-TCU state. I can't for the life of me think of a reason why they chose to die on the hill of not adding more systems.
deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
wmchen 1mo ago
I haven't played it, but a commonly suggested alternative for EVE Online that revolves around spreadsheets and a free market is Prosperous Universe.
simonebrunozzi 1mo ago
Check out Offworld Trading Company.
- efromvt 1mo ago
  I enjoyed off world trading company but it’s a very different kind of economic simulator- much shorter and gamified loops - which isn’t a criticism, just not exactly the same itch.
VirusNewbie 1mo ago
>I long for a true, in-depth economic MMO Schwab?
marijnz 1mo ago
We are trying to build this with seed.game. We don't have everything you're mentioning (yet), but parts of it!
- herbst 1mo ago
  Looks really interesting. Any plans for a Linux client? Or do you maybe test and build with proper Wine support?
  - marijnz 1mo ago
    Linux is working through Proton! There is also large thread on this in our Discord. https://www.protondb.com/app/2938800 https://www.protondb.com/app/2938800
simmerup 1mo ago
Anvil empires might end up being what you want

by sph 1mo ago

jvuygbbkuurx 1mo ago

Usually I don't care about the economy in MMOs, but in New World it was fun and different when it launched. I played almost exclusively for the economy. Buy and sell orders and separate auction houses between cities. There was many unexpected ways to make money with trading and crafting. The only major source of gold was a single main story quest early in the game, so if you weren't careful you would go broke and struggle. The economy wasn't that advanced, but it was fun watching the players ping pong back and forth with supply and demand.

sph 1mo ago
The crafting systems were so trivial that didn't make the economy game of New World particularly engaging. One core mechanic I seek is the division of labor; if everyone can and is expected to become a master in every skill, there is no niche to corner, and trivialises the experience. There are very few games (actually, only EVE comes to mind with its skill system) that require you to specialize if you want to compete over everybody else.

knicholes 1mo ago

Dune: Awakening tried this. Was kind of fun while it lasted (and before the bug stole all of my resources I was trying to sell. The support was zero help on getting that resolved. That killed it for me immediately).

squigz 1mo ago

What has changed about the EVE economy that you don't like? > Buy low, sell high. Specialize in industry, trading, transportation I did all of this, quite profitably and for quite a long time, in EVE?

sph 1mo ago
I don't like how EVE is run, and the pay-to-win mechanics added over the years to entice the whales. I'm looking at the problem with the eyes of a prospective game dev, and saying that there should be more games focused on free market economy, which is often just a half-arsed mechanic on the side, not the core game.
- laughing_man 1mo ago
  I played EVE for many years, and I really hated the addition of skill injectors. When I first started playing, the only way to get your skills up was to spend the time training them. Now it just takes real money cash. There's a legitimate argument for some P2W mechanics, though. To keep a game going you need new players, and if you're looking at losing every PvP encounter for years as you skill up your character you probably won't stay.
  - squigz 1mo ago
    The thing with EVE is that, even with all the ISK and SP in the game, you can't just buy your way to a win - you can't buy skill. You can have perfect skills and buy the best ship and modules and all that, but if you don't know how to fly, you're going to lose your ship immediately and it won't even be a fight. That, coupled with your second paragraph (the new player experience being so rough) and I've never really been too upset about the stuff CCP sells.
- lstodd 1mo ago
  Problem with EVE is that they did not have a solution for the problem of resource accumulation from the start. It was mitigated to some degree by great wars of old, and then wormhole space, but then they a) sold out to koreans with their interesting approach to MMOs, and b) merged the chinese shard. This did not help at all. Now.. Py3 is nice, and I guess that move signals that at last they pay attention to engine instead of bolting on useless p2w crap, but to really revive eve this is not it. In my opinion (joined EVE in 2006, still own a JF and few carriers there), what is needed is a massive sink for all the accumulated assets. Idk, expand the universe like tenfold. Then it would be fun again. edit: also ditch all the nullsec sov mechanics and revert to something resembling the pre-TCU state. I can't for the life of me think of a reason why they chose to die on the hill of not adding more systems.

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]

wmchen 1mo ago

I haven't played it, but a commonly suggested alternative for EVE Online that revolves around spreadsheets and a free market is Prosperous Universe.

simonebrunozzi 1mo ago

Check out Offworld Trading Company.

efromvt 1mo ago
I enjoyed off world trading company but it’s a very different kind of economic simulator- much shorter and gamified loops - which isn’t a criticism, just not exactly the same itch.

VirusNewbie 1mo ago

>I long for a true, in-depth economic MMO Schwab?

marijnz 1mo ago

We are trying to build this with seed.game. We don't have everything you're mentioning (yet), but parts of it!

herbst 1mo ago
Looks really interesting. Any plans for a Linux client? Or do you maybe test and build with proper Wine support?
- marijnz 1mo ago
  Linux is working through Proton! There is also large thread on this in our Discord. https://www.protondb.com/app/2938800 https://www.protondb.com/app/2938800

simmerup 1mo ago

Anvil empires might end up being what you want