4 ms·

The vote was to leave or stay - there was no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU before even considering how drastically opinions have shif

by vidarh 1mo ago

The vote was to leave or stay - there was no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU before even considering how drastically opinions have shifted since.

rgblambda 1mo ago
And there was considerable debate prior to the referendum within the Leave camp as to whether to go for a "soft Brexit" (close regulatory alignment) or "hard Brexit" (what the final deal ended up being).
- vidarh 1mo ago
  Indeed parts of the leave movement explicitly used as an argument that a soft Brexit was possible, including explicitly airing the possibility of a Norway-style EEA membership. Given how close the result was, it's highly unlikely that there wouldn't have been greater support for a very soft option than for what we got.
bArray 1mo ago
> no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU Then do you not support another vote that provides this option? > how drastically opinions have shifted since There is a way to conduct a poll that represents the engaged electorate - have another vote.
- vidarh 1mo ago
  I'd fully support a vote if rejoining was one of the options. It's pretty clear from polls that support to rejoin is far stronger than the support for Brexit was (in June, it was 55% for vs. 34% against, vs. 59% in support of a closer relationship and 20% against, and 29% supporting the current relationship). But in the meantime it is also entirely unambiguous that there is a clear mandate for a closer relationship - the gap is so huge (much larger than the support for the current status quo ever was) that there's no real need for another vote for that and voters can punish parties that support it at the next general election.
  - bArray 1mo ago
    > I'd fully support a vote if rejoining was one of the options. Of course it would be, but people would need some kind of understanding on what basis that would be on. > It's pretty clear from polls [..] I think there is only one way to know for sure. > But in the meantime it is also entirely unambiguous that there is a clear mandate for a closer relationship [..] People of the UK do not hate Europe, but there is evidence to suggest that people of the EU do not view the people of the UK favorably [1]. But I think the point of sovereignty and cost is a big one. [1] https://uk.news.yahoo.com/yougov-survey-eu-crisis-uk-120914688.html https://uk.news.yahoo.com/yougov-survey-eu-crisis-uk-1209146...

by vidarh 1mo ago

The vote was to leave or stay - there was no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU before even considering how drastically opinions have shifted since.

rgblambda 1mo ago

And there was considerable debate prior to the referendum within the Leave camp as to whether to go for a "soft Brexit" (close regulatory alignment) or "hard Brexit" (what the final deal ended up being).

vidarh 1mo ago
Indeed parts of the leave movement explicitly used as an argument that a soft Brexit was possible, including explicitly airing the possibility of a Norway-style EEA membership. Given how close the result was, it's highly unlikely that there wouldn't have been greater support for a very soft option than for what we got.

bArray 1mo ago

> no mandate for or against a specific relationship to the EU Then do you not support another vote that provides this option? > how drastically opinions have shifted since There is a way to conduct a poll that represents the engaged electorate - have another vote.

vidarh 1mo ago
I'd fully support a vote if rejoining was one of the options. It's pretty clear from polls that support to rejoin is far stronger than the support for Brexit was (in June, it was 55% for vs. 34% against, vs. 59% in support of a closer relationship and 20% against, and 29% supporting the current relationship). But in the meantime it is also entirely unambiguous that there is a clear mandate for a closer relationship - the gap is so huge (much larger than the support for the current status quo ever was) that there's no real need for another vote for that and voters can punish parties that support it at the next general election.
- bArray 1mo ago
  > I'd fully support a vote if rejoining was one of the options. Of course it would be, but people would need some kind of understanding on what basis that would be on. > It's pretty clear from polls [..] I think there is only one way to know for sure. > But in the meantime it is also entirely unambiguous that there is a clear mandate for a closer relationship [..] People of the UK do not hate Europe, but there is evidence to suggest that people of the EU do not view the people of the UK favorably [1]. But I think the point of sovereignty and cost is a big one. [1] https://uk.news.yahoo.com/yougov-survey-eu-crisis-uk-120914688.html https://uk.news.yahoo.com/yougov-survey-eu-crisis-uk-1209146...