4 ms·

> companies need to pay 40-50% of their gross revenue to the government. That's comparable to tobacco. taxing a vice is worth it on paper, but the second-order

> companies need to pay 40-50% of their gross revenue to the government. That's comparable to tobacco. taxing a vice is worth it on paper, but the second-order effects (nonstop alcohol ads, pervasive gambling app dark patterns) aren't worth it imo

combobyte 1mo ago
When was the last time you saw an ad for cigarettes? Those second-order effects are easy to mitigate with sensible public policy. And it's not like we have to invent the solution from scratch — we've done it before, very effectively.
- ryandrake 1mo ago
  This is the correct reply to the constant "but whatabout" replies, that inevitably come up whenever you suggest regulation. "You've regulated bad thing X, but then they'll do Y!" So regulate Y! It's not like legislators only get one crack at a law. We should elect a government willing to move fast and iterate when loopholes are uncovered.
  - gopher_space 1mo ago
    I mean if you're arguing an edge case you've already accepted the central point, so it's not like a response needs to be made. We handle edge cases.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    The thing is that US Congress can't make laws. It just can't. It's nonfunctional. When it does that's the rare exception, and it better be perfect the first time because you won't get so lucky twice.
    - mlrtime 1mo ago
      https://legiscan.com/US/legislation?status=passed https://legiscan.com/US/legislation?status=passed Seems like they can, or you mean they can't 'make laws' that you personally care about?
      - inigyou 1mo ago
        Cloudflare block page - I'm a bot. What does it say?
      - mepiethree 1mo ago
        IMO this link proves the poster’s point. We are passing 1-2 laws a week. So far the 119th congress has passed 104 laws 100 years ago, the 69th congress passed over 1500 laws, plus hundreds of continuing resolutions, treaties, etc https://www.loc.gov/collections/united-states-statutes-at-large/articles-and-essays/vol44-48/ https://www.loc.gov/collections/united-states-statutes-at-la...
- esseph 1mo ago
  > When was the last time you saw an ad for cigarettes? Today at the gas station on the outside of the pump and the store door.
  - dghlsakjg 1mo ago
    I was at a gas station today that sells tobacco. No ads. Its because even displaying tobacco products, let alone advertising them, is not allowed in that jurisdiction. I'll bet you didn't see any cartoon camels or doctors recomending a brand though, because even where tobacco ads are legal, many tobacco ads are no longer legal. Whether you see ads, and what kind of ads you see is highly regulated. That's the whole point,
    - esseph 1mo ago
      > I was at a gas station today that sells tobacco. No ads. Its because even displaying tobacco products, let alone advertising them, is not allowed. We clearly don't live in the same states.
      - dghlsakjg 1mo ago
        Sorry for the ninja edit about jurisdictions. I live in a different country since we don't have states here.
- khriss 1mo ago
  > Those second-order effects are easy to mitigate with sensible public policy. Regrettably, sensible public policy seems to be in remarkably short supply these days.
- Hikikomori 1mo ago
  Do you watch movies?
- jareklupinski 1mo ago
  after the first fifty years? :) biological organisms develop addiction much faster than political processes
tofuahdude 1mo ago
Aren't worth what? The tax? Or the vice being legal in the first place?
- jareklupinski 1mo ago
  aren't worth the tax: no matter how high you set the tax, it won't offset the amount you have to spend on rehabilitating the effects of the vice legality itself never stopped a vice from being indulged :) it's the cost / benefit that brings back repeat customers and encourages addictive behaviors
dakolli 1mo ago
You can't tax revenue in sports gambling markets, it actually just leads to predatory gambling products with massive vig/house edge. This was attempted in Tennessee. Margins are extermely low sports betting, like 4.5%. Its actually a loss leader typically. So for casinos that only have this type of wagering it taxes like this aren't going to work. A casino might turn over 50 billion yearly but only have a 2.5% edge in sports betting but you're proposing we tax them on the 50 billion. It doesnt work. It will either push them out of business, or they'll find a way to screw the player to increase margin through even more deceptive products. If the legal entity can't operate because of a tax on revenue than illegal offshore entities will gladly take their place and do. The only solution really is sharia law, a complete ban and harsh punsihments for all operators and customers. I say this ironically but it actually is really the only solution, and even this doesnt work entirely.
- matthewdgreen 1mo ago
  Sports betting was, if not prohibited, then highly-proscribed for most of my life. You could do it in a few places like OTB, go to Vegas, or deal with an illegal bookie. People still gambled, but this made the problem orders of magnitude smaller than it is today. We did not need Sharia law or the guillotine, just an existing system of laws that were generally highly workable. It is not helpful to pretend like we need wild solutions just to achieve results we’ve already achieved and maintained for decades.
  - dakolli 1mo ago
    I really dont think the problem has gotten worse, its just more visible. The previous status quo didnt work either, you just didnt hear as much about it because there weren't commercials. In all reality, the NASDAQ does the entire yearly turnover Klashi and Polymarket combined in a few minutes. It hasnt become as big of a problem as people make it out, but its still a problem. But there's no going back to the status quo with 1990s methods of enforcement. Everyone knows how to use crypto and VPNs, you'd just be pushing people into shady offshore.
    - 1mo ago

combobyte 1mo ago

When was the last time you saw an ad for cigarettes? Those second-order effects are easy to mitigate with sensible public policy. And it's not like we have to invent the solution from scratch — we've done it before, very effectively.

ryandrake 1mo ago
This is the correct reply to the constant "but whatabout" replies, that inevitably come up whenever you suggest regulation. "You've regulated bad thing X, but then they'll do Y!" So regulate Y! It's not like legislators only get one crack at a law. We should elect a government willing to move fast and iterate when loopholes are uncovered.
- gopher_space 1mo ago
  I mean if you're arguing an edge case you've already accepted the central point, so it's not like a response needs to be made. We handle edge cases.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  The thing is that US Congress can't make laws. It just can't. It's nonfunctional. When it does that's the rare exception, and it better be perfect the first time because you won't get so lucky twice.
  - mlrtime 1mo ago
    https://legiscan.com/US/legislation?status=passed https://legiscan.com/US/legislation?status=passed Seems like they can, or you mean they can't 'make laws' that you personally care about?
    - inigyou 1mo ago
      Cloudflare block page - I'm a bot. What does it say?
    - mepiethree 1mo ago
      IMO this link proves the poster’s point. We are passing 1-2 laws a week. So far the 119th congress has passed 104 laws 100 years ago, the 69th congress passed over 1500 laws, plus hundreds of continuing resolutions, treaties, etc https://www.loc.gov/collections/united-states-statutes-at-large/articles-and-essays/vol44-48/ https://www.loc.gov/collections/united-states-statutes-at-la...
esseph 1mo ago
> When was the last time you saw an ad for cigarettes? Today at the gas station on the outside of the pump and the store door.
- dghlsakjg 1mo ago
  I was at a gas station today that sells tobacco. No ads. Its because even displaying tobacco products, let alone advertising them, is not allowed in that jurisdiction. I'll bet you didn't see any cartoon camels or doctors recomending a brand though, because even where tobacco ads are legal, many tobacco ads are no longer legal. Whether you see ads, and what kind of ads you see is highly regulated. That's the whole point,
  - esseph 1mo ago
    > I was at a gas station today that sells tobacco. No ads. Its because even displaying tobacco products, let alone advertising them, is not allowed. We clearly don't live in the same states.
    - dghlsakjg 1mo ago
      Sorry for the ninja edit about jurisdictions. I live in a different country since we don't have states here.
khriss 1mo ago
> Those second-order effects are easy to mitigate with sensible public policy. Regrettably, sensible public policy seems to be in remarkably short supply these days.
Hikikomori 1mo ago
Do you watch movies?
jareklupinski 1mo ago
after the first fifty years? :) biological organisms develop addiction much faster than political processes

tofuahdude 1mo ago

Aren't worth what? The tax? Or the vice being legal in the first place?

jareklupinski 1mo ago
aren't worth the tax: no matter how high you set the tax, it won't offset the amount you have to spend on rehabilitating the effects of the vice legality itself never stopped a vice from being indulged :) it's the cost / benefit that brings back repeat customers and encourages addictive behaviors

dakolli 1mo ago

You can't tax revenue in sports gambling markets, it actually just leads to predatory gambling products with massive vig/house edge. This was attempted in Tennessee. Margins are extermely low sports betting, like 4.5%. Its actually a loss leader typically. So for casinos that only have this type of wagering it taxes like this aren't going to work. A casino might turn over 50 billion yearly but only have a 2.5% edge in sports betting but you're proposing we tax them on the 50 billion. It doesnt work. It will either push them out of business, or they'll find a way to screw the player to increase margin through even more deceptive products. If the legal entity can't operate because of a tax on revenue than illegal offshore entities will gladly take their place and do. The only solution really is sharia law, a complete ban and harsh punsihments for all operators and customers. I say this ironically but it actually is really the only solution, and even this doesnt work entirely.

matthewdgreen 1mo ago
Sports betting was, if not prohibited, then highly-proscribed for most of my life. You could do it in a few places like OTB, go to Vegas, or deal with an illegal bookie. People still gambled, but this made the problem orders of magnitude smaller than it is today. We did not need Sharia law or the guillotine, just an existing system of laws that were generally highly workable. It is not helpful to pretend like we need wild solutions just to achieve results we’ve already achieved and maintained for decades.
- dakolli 1mo ago
  I really dont think the problem has gotten worse, its just more visible. The previous status quo didnt work either, you just didnt hear as much about it because there weren't commercials. In all reality, the NASDAQ does the entire yearly turnover Klashi and Polymarket combined in a few minutes. It hasnt become as big of a problem as people make it out, but its still a problem. But there's no going back to the status quo with 1990s methods of enforcement. Everyone knows how to use crypto and VPNs, you'd just be pushing people into shady offshore.
  - 1mo ago