4 ms·

It is so frustrating that this can bring down the rest of the network to the lowest common denominator. I know it is the fault of a cheap switch, not the TV, bu

It is so frustrating that this can bring down the rest of the network to the lowest common denominator. I know it is the fault of a cheap switch, not the TV, but still.

toast0 2mo ago
> It is so frustrating that this can bring down the rest of the network to the lowest common denominator. It shouldn't? I have 10M to 10G in the same ethernet collision domain everything works at appropriate speeds (my 10G hosts don't always hit 10G cause some of them have anemic cpus, but that's a different story). Most of my switches are cheap gigE switches, not the 10G stuff obviously, so cheap isn't the problem. Only thing is if some equipment thought ethernet pause frames were a good idea... Send too much traffic to a low speed switch port and get a pause frame will tend to stop all outbound traffic which is not helpful. Not a lot of things send or respect pause frames though...
- blahlabs 2mo ago
  Pause frames are wild. I have a cheap Legion Go dock and if I leave it with power/Ethernet connected and no legion in the dock, it brings down my whole network after about 30min or so.
KetoManx64 2mo ago
The only reason this would be the case is if you are using network hubs or some ancient early 200's network equipmemt.
- rcxdude 2mo ago
  And hubs like that wouldn't work with 1G anyway. (Apparently theoretically some versions of gigabit ethernet could work with hubs but it's not clear any were ever made)
- adastra22 2mo ago
  Buffer exhaustion can cause it to happen pretty quickly with some normal, non-contrived usage patterns. A 10G host sending large data to a 100M peer will cause all packets between all other peers to drop once switch memory is filled up. Ideally the switch is smarter about this, but cheap switches in the real world…
  - iso1631 2mo ago
    You always get that no matter Imagine 5 devices that all push at 100mbit in 100 milliseconds (1gig linerate) to the target 1gig connected device, then nothing for 900ms. On paper they are feeding 100mbit a second each to a target receiving 500mbit a second. Easily fits in a 1gig link. But because of the timing you've got to transmit 500mbit in 100ms, or a peak speed of 5gbit. So instead you have to buffer and delay the packets. Your near-zero latency increases to 400ms, and your switch needs about 400mbit (50MB) of buffer, or over 30,000 packets of buffer space. You'd need a very high end switch to avoid any drops in that situation.
    - adastra22 2mo ago
      I’m not an expert on switching algorithms, but there are various algos they can use for dropping or rejecting packets, or QoS prioritization that are supposed to self limit even a poorly implemented network protocol and provide fair service and reasonable latency even in such a situation. Again, a cheapo non reputable switch probably runs with whatever settings got it working the first time with no follow up testing. Networking algorithms are an area where the simple dumb thing mostly works except in edge cases and adversarial situations, and the right/proper way to do things is fiendishly complex.
      - justsomehnguy 2mo ago
        If you claim > I’m not an expert on switching algorithms then you surely shouldn't tell about 'various algos' And no, no amount of software magik would help if your L1 can't handle the traffic.
  - windexh8er 2mo ago

It is so frustrating that this can bring down the rest of the network to the lowest common denominator. I know it is the fault of a cheap switch, not the TV, but still.

toast0 2mo ago

> It is so frustrating that this can bring down the rest of the network to the lowest common denominator. It shouldn't? I have 10M to 10G in the same ethernet collision domain everything works at appropriate speeds (my 10G hosts don't always hit 10G cause some of them have anemic cpus, but that's a different story). Most of my switches are cheap gigE switches, not the 10G stuff obviously, so cheap isn't the problem. Only thing is if some equipment thought ethernet pause frames were a good idea... Send too much traffic to a low speed switch port and get a pause frame will tend to stop all outbound traffic which is not helpful. Not a lot of things send or respect pause frames though...

blahlabs 2mo ago
Pause frames are wild. I have a cheap Legion Go dock and if I leave it with power/Ethernet connected and no legion in the dock, it brings down my whole network after about 30min or so.

KetoManx64 2mo ago

The only reason this would be the case is if you are using network hubs or some ancient early 200's network equipmemt.

rcxdude 2mo ago
And hubs like that wouldn't work with 1G anyway. (Apparently theoretically some versions of gigabit ethernet could work with hubs but it's not clear any were ever made)
adastra22 2mo ago
Buffer exhaustion can cause it to happen pretty quickly with some normal, non-contrived usage patterns. A 10G host sending large data to a 100M peer will cause all packets between all other peers to drop once switch memory is filled up. Ideally the switch is smarter about this, but cheap switches in the real world…
- iso1631 2mo ago
  You always get that no matter Imagine 5 devices that all push at 100mbit in 100 milliseconds (1gig linerate) to the target 1gig connected device, then nothing for 900ms. On paper they are feeding 100mbit a second each to a target receiving 500mbit a second. Easily fits in a 1gig link. But because of the timing you've got to transmit 500mbit in 100ms, or a peak speed of 5gbit. So instead you have to buffer and delay the packets. Your near-zero latency increases to 400ms, and your switch needs about 400mbit (50MB) of buffer, or over 30,000 packets of buffer space. You'd need a very high end switch to avoid any drops in that situation.
  - adastra22 2mo ago
    I’m not an expert on switching algorithms, but there are various algos they can use for dropping or rejecting packets, or QoS prioritization that are supposed to self limit even a poorly implemented network protocol and provide fair service and reasonable latency even in such a situation. Again, a cheapo non reputable switch probably runs with whatever settings got it working the first time with no follow up testing. Networking algorithms are an area where the simple dumb thing mostly works except in edge cases and adversarial situations, and the right/proper way to do things is fiendishly complex.
    - justsomehnguy 2mo ago
      If you claim > I’m not an expert on switching algorithms then you surely shouldn't tell about 'various algos' And no, no amount of software magik would help if your L1 can't handle the traffic.
- windexh8er 2mo ago