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I also raised an eyebrow at "the vast majority of laptops are only sold with a specific proprietary operating system: Microsoft Windows", but after looking at s

I also raised an eyebrow at "the vast majority of laptops are only sold with a specific proprietary operating system: Microsoft Windows", but after looking at some estimates it seems legit. Probably only about 1 in 10 laptops is a Mac. Software developers really just live in a different world than normal people. It got me thinking though: what is a laptop? People probably count Chromebooks, and that seems fair. Is a SteamDeck a laptop? Is an iPad with a keyboard case a laptop? Is a Microsoft Surface Pro a laptop when it has its keyboard attached?

oynqr 1mo ago
A portable IBM PC is a laptop (lawful good).
- vrganj 1mo ago
  An iPhone with a Bluetooth keyboard is a laptop (chaotic evil)
  - da5is 1mo ago
    Anything resting across my legs while sitting is a laptop (true neutral)
    - inigyou 1mo ago
      Your girlfriend is a laptop.
- Sohcahtoa82 1mo ago
  Is the Commodore SX-64 a laptop? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_SX-64 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_SX-64
deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
pizza234 1mo ago
> what is a laptop? There's actually a very simple answer to that! A laptop is a mobile device with the set of functionalities that macOS has, but iPadOS hasn't :) I wish this was ironic (I'd love to use the iPad Pro as laptop), but it isn't.
- neallindsay 1mo ago
  So a Surface Pro is a laptop then. Does a SteamDeck become a laptop if you install Windows on it?
  - pizza234 1mo ago
    > So a Surface Pro is a laptop then That's exactly the situation with the iPad Pro, with the exception that Microsoft didn't castrate it. I've had one and used it for professional development; it's not very ergonomic when used on your lap (but still usable), so it's not to everyone's liking. Still, I'd use a modern one if it were 100% Linux-compatible, and wouldn't miss anything. > Does a SteamDeck become a laptop if you install Windows on it? Whether a laptop requires a hinge to be defined as such can b matter of personal preference. For me (and, again, for Apple), it's not a requirement. 7 inches is a dealbreaker for me, although I think Stallman used a 7-inch laptop.
TheRealPomax 1mo ago
A laptop is whatever uses a rigid clamshell form factor with a screen that folds down over the keyboard. A screen with a flippy floppy detachable keyboard is not that, so: - A chrome book is a laptop, it uses the laptop form factor. - A Steamdeck is not a laptop. It does not use the laptop form factor. - An iPad is not a laptop. It does not use the laptop form factor out of the box, it needs peripherals to even pretend to be one. - A surface Pro is also not a laptop, but the Surface Laptop is. Just "having a flippy floppy magnetic keyboard pre-bundled with it" doesn't make a tablet a laptop. Having a rigid clamshell design makes it a laptop. And yes, that makes the Asus Zenbook a laptop, because it is. It just has the circuitry in the screen instead of the base. Hell, Asus literally calls them laptops themselves.
- Lord_Zero 1mo ago
  Where does this definition come from? Or is this just the commonplace accepted definition? For example why is the definition not "A laptop is any self-contained device that can sit wirelessly atop your laptop without the need for any extra peripherals?"
remix2000 1mo ago
Clearly a computer is a laptop if you can use it comfortably while it’s sitting on your laps.
dublinben 1mo ago
Or as Apple once (in)famously asked, "what's a computer?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5BLs51yDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5BLs51yDQ
simulator5g 1mo ago
Software devs absolutely live in their own little world. Regular people don’t even know what an OS is. All the details of computing have become so abstracted away from the user that they’re completely unaware.
Zambyte 1mo ago
I can't think of any software engineers I personally know who use Mac. In my industry, pretty much anyone who uses Mac is in a managerial position.
- trueno 1mo ago
  all of our engineering teams use macs except one dude who carries his early 2000s windows4life gamer energy with him wherever he goes. as it turns out if you aren't specifically like doing cuda or dx stuff having unix and being able to compile quickly, emulate or translate every deployment target architecture, great ppw ... lends a lot of credit towards many domains of software engineering. it feels like it collapsed multiple devices into one. i just spin up a windows environment if i need to support some janky legacy windows only thing.
  - Zambyte 1mo ago
    ... I guess I know a couple of software engineers that use Windows.
- cgrealy 1mo ago
  Every engineer at my job uses a mac. Same for my friends job. In fact, the only people who use windows are finance people, HR, etc
  - Zambyte 1mo ago
    I forgot this thread was about Windows, lol. Most of the software engineers I know use GNU/Linux.
- Breza 1mo ago
  In my experience as the head of data science in a corporation, everybody uses Windows on their local machines and Linux remotely.
- account42 1mo ago
  Yes it's always entertaining when people assume that their specific computing culture bubbles are universal.
kulahan 1mo ago
Try finding a PC manufacturer that lets you choose Linux instead of Windows when customizing your PC. I remember one or two companies offering it, and even giving a discount for it (~$100?), but the rest simply default to Windows. Others let you choose Linux, but you have to pay to remove Windows. They can't install their bloatware (or are unwilling to, anyways), so you have to pay the unsubsidized price.
- account42 1mo ago
  Even the ones that offer Linux might not have it in stock for the configuration you want. E.g. when I bought a Dell laptop I could only get one with the keyboard I wanted with Windows.
jibal 1mo ago
> Software developers really just live in a different world than normal people. They actually don't, which is why the vast majority of software developers would never "raise an eyebrow" to the very well known obviously true statement that the vast majority of laptops are only sold with Microsoft Windows, regardless of what they themselves or their coworkers use.
prmoustache 1mo ago
> It got me thinking though: what is a laptop? A cat.
- account42 1mo ago
  No, a cat is a barcode reader https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat
jimmygrapes 1mo ago
bro, ethernet and cellular data is called WiFi now

oynqr 1mo ago

A portable IBM PC is a laptop (lawful good).

vrganj 1mo ago
An iPhone with a Bluetooth keyboard is a laptop (chaotic evil)
- da5is 1mo ago
  Anything resting across my legs while sitting is a laptop (true neutral)
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    Your girlfriend is a laptop.
Sohcahtoa82 1mo ago
Is the Commodore SX-64 a laptop? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_SX-64 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_SX-64

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]

pizza234 1mo ago

> what is a laptop? There's actually a very simple answer to that! A laptop is a mobile device with the set of functionalities that macOS has, but iPadOS hasn't :) I wish this was ironic (I'd love to use the iPad Pro as laptop), but it isn't.

neallindsay 1mo ago
So a Surface Pro is a laptop then. Does a SteamDeck become a laptop if you install Windows on it?
- pizza234 1mo ago
  > So a Surface Pro is a laptop then That's exactly the situation with the iPad Pro, with the exception that Microsoft didn't castrate it. I've had one and used it for professional development; it's not very ergonomic when used on your lap (but still usable), so it's not to everyone's liking. Still, I'd use a modern one if it were 100% Linux-compatible, and wouldn't miss anything. > Does a SteamDeck become a laptop if you install Windows on it? Whether a laptop requires a hinge to be defined as such can b matter of personal preference. For me (and, again, for Apple), it's not a requirement. 7 inches is a dealbreaker for me, although I think Stallman used a 7-inch laptop.

TheRealPomax 1mo ago

A laptop is whatever uses a rigid clamshell form factor with a screen that folds down over the keyboard. A screen with a flippy floppy detachable keyboard is not that, so: - A chrome book is a laptop, it uses the laptop form factor. - A Steamdeck is not a laptop. It does not use the laptop form factor. - An iPad is not a laptop. It does not use the laptop form factor out of the box, it needs peripherals to even pretend to be one. - A surface Pro is also not a laptop, but the Surface Laptop is. Just "having a flippy floppy magnetic keyboard pre-bundled with it" doesn't make a tablet a laptop. Having a rigid clamshell design makes it a laptop. And yes, that makes the Asus Zenbook a laptop, because it is. It just has the circuitry in the screen instead of the base. Hell, Asus literally calls them laptops themselves.

Lord_Zero 1mo ago
Where does this definition come from? Or is this just the commonplace accepted definition? For example why is the definition not "A laptop is any self-contained device that can sit wirelessly atop your laptop without the need for any extra peripherals?"

remix2000 1mo ago

Clearly a computer is a laptop if you can use it comfortably while it’s sitting on your laps.

dublinben 1mo ago

Or as Apple once (in)famously asked, "what's a computer?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5BLs51yDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5BLs51yDQ

simulator5g 1mo ago

Software devs absolutely live in their own little world. Regular people don’t even know what an OS is. All the details of computing have become so abstracted away from the user that they’re completely unaware.

Zambyte 1mo ago

I can't think of any software engineers I personally know who use Mac. In my industry, pretty much anyone who uses Mac is in a managerial position.

trueno 1mo ago
all of our engineering teams use macs except one dude who carries his early 2000s windows4life gamer energy with him wherever he goes. as it turns out if you aren't specifically like doing cuda or dx stuff having unix and being able to compile quickly, emulate or translate every deployment target architecture, great ppw ... lends a lot of credit towards many domains of software engineering. it feels like it collapsed multiple devices into one. i just spin up a windows environment if i need to support some janky legacy windows only thing.
- Zambyte 1mo ago
  ... I guess I know a couple of software engineers that use Windows.
cgrealy 1mo ago
Every engineer at my job uses a mac. Same for my friends job. In fact, the only people who use windows are finance people, HR, etc
- Zambyte 1mo ago
  I forgot this thread was about Windows, lol. Most of the software engineers I know use GNU/Linux.
Breza 1mo ago
In my experience as the head of data science in a corporation, everybody uses Windows on their local machines and Linux remotely.
account42 1mo ago
Yes it's always entertaining when people assume that their specific computing culture bubbles are universal.

kulahan 1mo ago

Try finding a PC manufacturer that lets you choose Linux instead of Windows when customizing your PC. I remember one or two companies offering it, and even giving a discount for it (~$100?), but the rest simply default to Windows. Others let you choose Linux, but you have to pay to remove Windows. They can't install their bloatware (or are unwilling to, anyways), so you have to pay the unsubsidized price.

account42 1mo ago
Even the ones that offer Linux might not have it in stock for the configuration you want. E.g. when I bought a Dell laptop I could only get one with the keyboard I wanted with Windows.

jibal 1mo ago

> Software developers really just live in a different world than normal people. They actually don't, which is why the vast majority of software developers would never "raise an eyebrow" to the very well known obviously true statement that the vast majority of laptops are only sold with Microsoft Windows, regardless of what they themselves or their coworkers use.

prmoustache 1mo ago

> It got me thinking though: what is a laptop? A cat.

account42 1mo ago
No, a cat is a barcode reader https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat

jimmygrapes 1mo ago

bro, ethernet and cellular data is called WiFi now