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>That sort of design has fallen out of favor with newer frameworks, unfortunately. The new preferred style seems to be a wireframe that the dev chooses which pa

>That sort of design has fallen out of favor with newer frameworks, unfortunately. The new preferred style seems to be a wireframe that the dev chooses which parts fill in, and often only the barest of essentials makes the cut. Which ones, besides web frameworks pretending to be desktop ones? Most if not all frameworks I know support keyboard navigation.

ethin 2mo ago
I know of at least 5 different UI frameworks in different languages which are partially accessible or completely inaccessible. Some include Dlangui, Tkinter (although this is getting better), DearImGui... Really any UI that decides to draw it's widgets by frame. QT also has some accessibility problems. In apps made with any of these, they are either impossible to use with assistive technology (and therefore the keyboard) or they are very difficult to use.
- gmueckl 2mo ago
  Dlangui is so niche that I am amazed to even see it here. DearImGui is intended for thowing together some slap-dash UI widgets for debugging things like interactive rendering. Do Qt built-in widgets have huge problems? Inwould assume that custom widgets invariably do because approximately nobody writes any accessibility handling for them.
  - ethin 2mo ago
    > Dlangui is so niche that I am amazed to even see it here. Eh, I'm testing whether I can make it fully accessible, since I happen to like the D language itself. But the UI without my changes is entirely inaccessible. > DearImGui is intended for thowing together some slap-dash UI widgets for debugging things like interactive rendering. That's probably what it's intended for, but people use it for far more than that, which is a problem. Even if it weren't, it's inaccessibility is a problem. > Do Qt built-in widgets have huge problems? Inwould assume that custom widgets invariably do because approximately nobody writes any accessibility handling for them. Sometimes. Depends on the widget. I've had QLineEdit's crash apps when all-select-copy workflows have been used, or with NVDA on win32 you can't ordinarily read a multi-line QT QLineEdit or other multi-line input since the focus will remain on the first line, always. Webviews are entirely inaccessible at the moment.
    - gmueckl 2mo ago
      Thank you for your work in DlangUI. Progress on it has sometimes been so slow that I mistook it for abandoned. It has great ideas as far as its API design goes, but the implementation wasn't very sophisticated yet last time I looked. I think that D deserves to have its own mature UI library and DlangUI is probably still the front runner.

ethin 2mo ago

I know of at least 5 different UI frameworks in different languages which are partially accessible or completely inaccessible. Some include Dlangui, Tkinter (although this is getting better), DearImGui... Really any UI that decides to draw it's widgets by frame. QT also has some accessibility problems. In apps made with any of these, they are either impossible to use with assistive technology (and therefore the keyboard) or they are very difficult to use.

gmueckl 2mo ago
Dlangui is so niche that I am amazed to even see it here. DearImGui is intended for thowing together some slap-dash UI widgets for debugging things like interactive rendering. Do Qt built-in widgets have huge problems? Inwould assume that custom widgets invariably do because approximately nobody writes any accessibility handling for them.
- ethin 2mo ago
  > Dlangui is so niche that I am amazed to even see it here. Eh, I'm testing whether I can make it fully accessible, since I happen to like the D language itself. But the UI without my changes is entirely inaccessible. > DearImGui is intended for thowing together some slap-dash UI widgets for debugging things like interactive rendering. That's probably what it's intended for, but people use it for far more than that, which is a problem. Even if it weren't, it's inaccessibility is a problem. > Do Qt built-in widgets have huge problems? Inwould assume that custom widgets invariably do because approximately nobody writes any accessibility handling for them. Sometimes. Depends on the widget. I've had QLineEdit's crash apps when all-select-copy workflows have been used, or with NVDA on win32 you can't ordinarily read a multi-line QT QLineEdit or other multi-line input since the focus will remain on the first line, always. Webviews are entirely inaccessible at the moment.
  - gmueckl 2mo ago
    Thank you for your work in DlangUI. Progress on it has sometimes been so slow that I mistook it for abandoned. It has great ideas as far as its API design goes, but the implementation wasn't very sophisticated yet last time I looked. I think that D deserves to have its own mature UI library and DlangUI is probably still the front runner.