3 ms·
> This is not a reasonable expectation. I may be of a different age, but in my time it was common to buy computers without any OS pre-installed. It was on you
by BeetleB 2mo ago
> This is not a reasonable expectation.
I may be of a different age, but in my time it was common to buy computers without any OS pre-installed. It was on you to install one (from CD, floppy, whatever).
Of course, vendors selling PCs often also sold OS's...
- flyingshelf 2mo agoSorry but this isn't the 70s. Even businesses expect devices to somewhat work out of the box so it's completely unreasonable to everyone except people who buy things like Raspberry PI, which are a tiny minority.
- BeetleB 2mo agoI'm talking about the 90's. I'm sure they did sell computers with Windows pre-installed in the 90's. But almost every place also sold computers without any OS. It was not at all unusual. The computing world wasn't just in the US, you know. Microsoft didn't have a deal with all PC manufacturers in the world.
- tredre3 2mo agoExpectations change over time. But I also believe your recollection is erroneous or must differ by region because I was there as early as the 80s and computers sold without an operating system weren't common. If you were buying a PC clone in the 90s you could buy it without the Windows license, of course, but the default was to include it. Even before PCs, computers typically shipped with BASIC, which was their operating system of sort. Macs, Amigas, they all shipped with an OS as well.
- BeetleB 2mo ago> Even before PCs, computers typically shipped with BASIC, which was their operating system of sort. Sure. In the 80's, all the IBM PC compatibles I dealt with shipped with BASIC in their ROM. But I don't think they charged a licensing fee for it.
- jasomill 2mo agoMaybe not, but as I understand it, languages were one of Gates' key bargaining chips in negotiating the terms of the MS/PC-DOS deal that put Microsoft in a position to start licensing to OEM's on a per-CPU basis in the first place.
- BeetleB 2mo agoI'm pretty sure the BASIC that launched from my ROM was not from Microsoft...
- Telaneo 2mo agoIt was if it was an IBM machine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_BASIC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_BASIC
- BeetleB 2mo agoYes, but most people bought IBM Compatibles, not IBM. I don't think I know anyone who bought an actual IBM PC.
- themadturk 1mo agoCassette BASIC was exclusive to early IBM PCs, XTs and PC Jrs. PCs like Compaq's, with their very, very compatible BIOS, didn't have BASIC in ROM.
- BeetleB 1mo agoI had an XT. Not IBM. It had BASIC ROM. Everyone I know who had an XT (8088 or 8086) had BASIC in the ROM. None was IBM and all were different companies. I don't think Compaq even made XTs, did they?
- themadturk 1mo ago
- cortesoft 2mo agoThis is still the case. You can absolutely buy computers without an OS, but most people don't want that so they aren't quite as easy to find. Here is an HP without an OS: https://www.newegg.com/p/1VK-001E-4UPC7 https://www.newegg.com/p/1VK-001E-4UPC7 If you want something that most other people don't want, it is going to be a little harder to find. That isn't a conspiracy, that is just life.
- BeetleB 2mo agoYes, it may take some work these days. I was addressing the claim that it's "not a reasonable expectation" with a pretty poor rationale provided. The rationale applied equally well in the 80's and 90's, and no one then said "It's unreasonable to sell without an OS."