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"Some holes"? That's an understatement. There's no option to bring up a context menu with the keyboard. And there are no keyboard accelerators _AT_ _ALL_. Wind

by cyberax 2mo ago

"Some holes"? That's an understatement. There's no option to bring up a context menu with the keyboard. And there are no keyboard accelerators _AT_ _ALL_. Windows will underline the shortcut characters when you hold "alt".

cosmic_cheese 2mo ago
> There's no option to bring up a context menu with the keyboard. That used to be the case but has changed. Since at least macOS 15 the context menu key on typical keyboards is recognized and functions, and on other keyboards it can be opened with Ctrl+Return.
- Muskwalker 2mo ago
  > Since at least macOS 15 the context menu key on typical keyboards is recognized and functions Apple's adding it to its own keyboards as well, at least on the third-generation Magic Keyboard with number pad (between F13 and forward delete).
kccqzy 2mo ago
The philosophy was that anything visible in a context menu should also be in the app-wide menu bar. Instead of bring up a context menu and click Copy, you would find the Copy menu item in the menu bar. Therefore such menu items can be assigned any keyboard shortcut by the user. I quote from Apple https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/context-menus https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...: > Always make context menu items available in the main interface, too. […] In macOS, an app’s menu bar menus list all the app’s commands, including those in various context menus. Therefore one can rightly conclude that there is no need for a key to bring up a context menu.
- Tallain 2mo ago
  In this case it's not a context menu, it's just a menu. User experience is degraded, see GP's case. There is an expectation and a common paradigm which is intentionally ignored because the OS developers thought they knew better than the users. This reminds me of frequent conversations with other developers when presented with a bug report. "That's not a bug, it's working as intended." The intention is wrong, then -- the bug is in the design, not the code, but it's still a bug.
  - DamnableNook 2mo ago
    Not working for your particular preferences isn’t a bug; your preferences are just wrong for the vast majority of users. The hubris of HN posters never fails to astound me. The most niche of workflows, then wonders why regular users don’t all learn esoteric keybindings and use TUIs.
    - Tallain 1mo ago
      I don't know if this is aimed at me or not. I don't use this workflow; in fact I'm pretty bog-standard in many of the ways I use my computers. In any case, I don't see how expecting to be able to bring up a context menu is in any way esoteric. We're in a thread about navigating GUIs using a keyboard. On many keyboards there's literally a key dedicated to opening a context menu, and on most OSs there's a pretty standard shortcut to do it as well, which is what GP was talking about and what sibling comments discuss being added more recently in MacOS. So, again, not very esoteric. I also don't see how trying to emphasize empathy toward users translates to hubris. But sounds like you've got a bone to pick, so keep picking I guess.

by cyberax 2mo ago

cosmic_cheese 2mo ago

> There's no option to bring up a context menu with the keyboard. That used to be the case but has changed. Since at least macOS 15 the context menu key on typical keyboards is recognized and functions, and on other keyboards it can be opened with Ctrl+Return.

Muskwalker 2mo ago
> Since at least macOS 15 the context menu key on typical keyboards is recognized and functions Apple's adding it to its own keyboards as well, at least on the third-generation Magic Keyboard with number pad (between F13 and forward delete).

kccqzy 2mo ago

The philosophy was that anything visible in a context menu should also be in the app-wide menu bar. Instead of bring up a context menu and click Copy, you would find the Copy menu item in the menu bar. Therefore such menu items can be assigned any keyboard shortcut by the user. I quote from Apple https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/context-menus https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guideline...: > Always make context menu items available in the main interface, too. […] In macOS, an app’s menu bar menus list all the app’s commands, including those in various context menus. Therefore one can rightly conclude that there is no need for a key to bring up a context menu.

Tallain 2mo ago
In this case it's not a context menu, it's just a menu. User experience is degraded, see GP's case. There is an expectation and a common paradigm which is intentionally ignored because the OS developers thought they knew better than the users. This reminds me of frequent conversations with other developers when presented with a bug report. "That's not a bug, it's working as intended." The intention is wrong, then -- the bug is in the design, not the code, but it's still a bug.
- DamnableNook 2mo ago
  Not working for your particular preferences isn’t a bug; your preferences are just wrong for the vast majority of users. The hubris of HN posters never fails to astound me. The most niche of workflows, then wonders why regular users don’t all learn esoteric keybindings and use TUIs.
  - Tallain 1mo ago
    I don't know if this is aimed at me or not. I don't use this workflow; in fact I'm pretty bog-standard in many of the ways I use my computers. In any case, I don't see how expecting to be able to bring up a context menu is in any way esoteric. We're in a thread about navigating GUIs using a keyboard. On many keyboards there's literally a key dedicated to opening a context menu, and on most OSs there's a pretty standard shortcut to do it as well, which is what GP was talking about and what sibling comments discuss being added more recently in MacOS. So, again, not very esoteric. I also don't see how trying to emphasize empathy toward users translates to hubris. But sounds like you've got a bone to pick, so keep picking I guess.