4 ms·

Indeed, I've no interest in native apps to do something that can be done in a web app and if you don't let me do it in a web app I'll bounce and either find som

Indeed, I've no interest in native apps to do something that can be done in a web app and if you don't let me do it in a web app I'll bounce and either find someone who can or do without unless there is a seriously compelling use case (I'm not that dogmatic). As a result the only native apps I use on my phone are Kindle, Authy and Firefox because I trust Firefox to prevent apps doing a lot of the sketchy shit locally a lot more than I trust an app/the host OS to do so.

em3rgent0rdr 2mo ago
> "do something that can be done in a web app" I'll bite. What important features can only be done in an "app" but not a web app nowadays?
- edent 2mo ago
  NFC reading is one. That's why lots of Governments publish apps - it's a reliable way to check your passport if you need a visa etc. It might be coming to the web - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_NFC_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_NFC_API
  - cjrp 2mo ago
    Do they require it though? I've used a few, but it's always been a convenience thing to use the NFC-scanning app; the alternative is just typing in the details manually.
    - edent 2mo ago
      Yes. It offers cryptographic proof that you physically have the passport with you. It also gets a digital copy of the photo and other biometrics held on the NFC chip. From a user point of view it reduces the number of typos entered.
    - troyjfarrell 2mo ago
      Kazakhstan has an app (QazETA) for its electronic travel authorization, which is required for many passport holders who want to enter under the visa-free regime. (Perhaps it is not strictly required as one could apply for a visa instead.) Somewhat confusingly, the iOS App Store description [0] of the app says that it is not a government app, while the rest of the internet and Kazakh government sites say that it is the official government app for the purpose of applying for the ETA. [0]: https://apps.apple.com/app/id6748705452 https://apps.apple.com/app/id6748705452
- earthnail 2mo ago
  Realtime stuff. Audio, video etc, games. Apps with a large user library (like the Photos app) that should work offline.
  - em3rgent0rdr 2mo ago
    Right. Of course there is some overhead for using WebGL vs native OpenGL calls, but I think that's only noticeable for AAA games. Web audio's extra latency does make it undesirable only for things that require quick response, like realtime synths and maybe DAWs. Regarding libraries, I wonder if maybe there could be a cacheable package manager system for distributing wasm libraries to webapps.
- joshuakcockrell 2mo ago
  It’s also about friction. No one wants to troubleshoot a card decline by logging into their mobile browser bank account in checkout at the grocery store.
  - nickburns 2mo ago
    You mean some kind of perceived personal convenience through the uneven-handed profit of others and at the expense of everyone else. Trying to check why your card was declined at a checkout—while still standing at said checkout? Troubleshooting "PIN issues" (meaning your bad)? Is everyone still standing behind you at this point? LOL. Exactly.
  - ulyssys 2mo ago
    > “Just log into your bank account on the mobile web browser” is a pretty clunky way to see why your card declined. But that's because the user experience as designed is more hostile or not otherwise accounting for mobile use--right? Or are you saying there is a limit to the web platform's ability to reduce friction?
  - 4chandaily 2mo ago
    My credit card doesn't need me to lock/unlock it, doesn't require I have a phone with me, and certainly doesn't require an app. The last thing I ever would want is for the people in charge of "apps" to have access to my finances. All you are doing is creating another layer where something is allowed to tell you "No". Why would you choose this?
    - freedomben 2mo ago
      Right, and I can't remember the last time the battery in my credit card died or needed recharging. Phone has died plenty of times when I needed it
  - vel0city 2mo ago
    No one wants to troubleshoot a card decline by having to download and install a 700MB bank app in checkout at the grocery store either. Personally I'll take the browser login every time in that situation!
- dmayle 2mo ago
  A ton of features work only or better on app: - anything privacy sensitive - anything processing intense (using optimized binaries) - widgets - camera and audio based features *can* work, but are more finicky (or outright broken on ios) - local storage (exists in web app, short lifetimes on web site) - performance/latency sensitive work - (I'm less familiar, but probably local sensors, like gps and acceleration)
  - nickburns 2mo ago
    [flagged]
  - rcxdude 2mo ago
    It's a shrinking area: You can get GPS, accelerometer, etc inputs from a web app nowadays. From my own experience the main areas that are tricky are related to automatically finding and connecting to devices: you can do bluetooth at least, but there's things an app can do with wifi and local connection protocols you can't easily do with a web app.
  - reaperducer 2mo ago
    anything privacy sensitive You've got that backwards. Web is more private than an app. Every regulated healthcare company has a web site. None require an "app."
    - willtemperley 2mo ago
      It depends. Truly working offline, which is as private as it gets in many scenarios, isn’t really feasible with web apps.
      - reaperducer 2mo ago
        You could also work in a windowless steel box inside a cave at the top of a mountain, if you really want to move the goalposts.
        2mo ago
carlosjobim 2mo ago
A real native app practically always has better performance than web apps. And your data is on your machine. And it can integrate with the operating system. And you can do work offline. And performance saves battery. A web app is almost never better.
- freedomben 2mo ago
  > And your data is on your machine. Not really true anymore, especially on mobile. Plus the privacy invading abilities of native are much higher
  - carlosjobim 2mo ago
    With a native app your data can be on your machine (or not, or both). With a web app it can't be on your machine. > Plus the privacy invading abilities of native are much higher Your privacy is already completely invaded if your data is in the cloud, as it has to be with web apps.
- dspillett 2mo ago
  True for genuine native apps, but most apps these days are just wrappers around web apps so you get none of the benefits of a true native app while also losing some of the benefits of a web app.

em3rgent0rdr 2mo ago

> "do something that can be done in a web app" I'll bite. What important features can only be done in an "app" but not a web app nowadays?

edent 2mo ago
NFC reading is one. That's why lots of Governments publish apps - it's a reliable way to check your passport if you need a visa etc. It might be coming to the web - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_NFC_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_NFC_API
- cjrp 2mo ago
  Do they require it though? I've used a few, but it's always been a convenience thing to use the NFC-scanning app; the alternative is just typing in the details manually.
  - edent 2mo ago
    Yes. It offers cryptographic proof that you physically have the passport with you. It also gets a digital copy of the photo and other biometrics held on the NFC chip. From a user point of view it reduces the number of typos entered.
  - troyjfarrell 2mo ago
    Kazakhstan has an app (QazETA) for its electronic travel authorization, which is required for many passport holders who want to enter under the visa-free regime. (Perhaps it is not strictly required as one could apply for a visa instead.) Somewhat confusingly, the iOS App Store description [0] of the app says that it is not a government app, while the rest of the internet and Kazakh government sites say that it is the official government app for the purpose of applying for the ETA. [0]: https://apps.apple.com/app/id6748705452 https://apps.apple.com/app/id6748705452
earthnail 2mo ago
Realtime stuff. Audio, video etc, games. Apps with a large user library (like the Photos app) that should work offline.
- em3rgent0rdr 2mo ago
  Right. Of course there is some overhead for using WebGL vs native OpenGL calls, but I think that's only noticeable for AAA games. Web audio's extra latency does make it undesirable only for things that require quick response, like realtime synths and maybe DAWs. Regarding libraries, I wonder if maybe there could be a cacheable package manager system for distributing wasm libraries to webapps.
joshuakcockrell 2mo ago
It’s also about friction. No one wants to troubleshoot a card decline by logging into their mobile browser bank account in checkout at the grocery store.
- nickburns 2mo ago
  You mean some kind of perceived personal convenience through the uneven-handed profit of others and at the expense of everyone else. Trying to check why your card was declined at a checkout—while still standing at said checkout? Troubleshooting "PIN issues" (meaning your bad)? Is everyone still standing behind you at this point? LOL. Exactly.
- ulyssys 2mo ago
  > “Just log into your bank account on the mobile web browser” is a pretty clunky way to see why your card declined. But that's because the user experience as designed is more hostile or not otherwise accounting for mobile use--right? Or are you saying there is a limit to the web platform's ability to reduce friction?
- 4chandaily 2mo ago
  My credit card doesn't need me to lock/unlock it, doesn't require I have a phone with me, and certainly doesn't require an app. The last thing I ever would want is for the people in charge of "apps" to have access to my finances. All you are doing is creating another layer where something is allowed to tell you "No". Why would you choose this?
  - freedomben 2mo ago
    Right, and I can't remember the last time the battery in my credit card died or needed recharging. Phone has died plenty of times when I needed it
- vel0city 2mo ago
  No one wants to troubleshoot a card decline by having to download and install a 700MB bank app in checkout at the grocery store either. Personally I'll take the browser login every time in that situation!
dmayle 2mo ago
A ton of features work only or better on app: - anything privacy sensitive - anything processing intense (using optimized binaries) - widgets - camera and audio based features *can* work, but are more finicky (or outright broken on ios) - local storage (exists in web app, short lifetimes on web site) - performance/latency sensitive work - (I'm less familiar, but probably local sensors, like gps and acceleration)
- nickburns 2mo ago
  [flagged]
- rcxdude 2mo ago
  It's a shrinking area: You can get GPS, accelerometer, etc inputs from a web app nowadays. From my own experience the main areas that are tricky are related to automatically finding and connecting to devices: you can do bluetooth at least, but there's things an app can do with wifi and local connection protocols you can't easily do with a web app.
- reaperducer 2mo ago
  anything privacy sensitive You've got that backwards. Web is more private than an app. Every regulated healthcare company has a web site. None require an "app."
  - willtemperley 2mo ago
    It depends. Truly working offline, which is as private as it gets in many scenarios, isn’t really feasible with web apps.
    - reaperducer 2mo ago
      You could also work in a windowless steel box inside a cave at the top of a mountain, if you really want to move the goalposts.
      - 2mo ago

carlosjobim 2mo ago

A real native app practically always has better performance than web apps. And your data is on your machine. And it can integrate with the operating system. And you can do work offline. And performance saves battery. A web app is almost never better.

freedomben 2mo ago
> And your data is on your machine. Not really true anymore, especially on mobile. Plus the privacy invading abilities of native are much higher
- carlosjobim 2mo ago
  With a native app your data can be on your machine (or not, or both). With a web app it can't be on your machine. > Plus the privacy invading abilities of native are much higher Your privacy is already completely invaded if your data is in the cloud, as it has to be with web apps.
dspillett 2mo ago
True for genuine native apps, but most apps these days are just wrappers around web apps so you get none of the benefits of a true native app while also losing some of the benefits of a web app.