4 ms·

YAML is (or at least, is declared by its maintainers to be) a superset of JSON, making any JSON document also a valid YAML document. So surely if YAML is strea

by dghf 1mo ago

YAML is (or at least, is declared by its maintainers to be) a superset of JSON, making any JSON document also a valid YAML document. So surely if YAML is streamable, JSON must be too? Or are the YAML maintainers incorrect?

vkazanov 1mo ago
Yaml streams are just yaml docs separated by "---" withing a single file. The json spec just doesnt do anything like that but jsonl does.
boricj 1mo ago
I wrote a C++ library at work that, among other things, serializes/deserializes to JSON, CBOR and BSON. I don't get that point. The first two formats I've implemented as fully streaming, the serializers emit into an output iterator one character/byte at a time and the deserializers only need to hold one value at a time (mostly for strings, and not even for CBOR's byte arrays, which are streamed). BSON requires full document instantiation because of byte offsets and is genuinely anti-streaming in its design. I happen to have implemented a serializer for YAML, fully streaming, mostly as a compact-ish human-readable debug data representation. I can scarcely think of fates worse than having to write a spec-compliant YAML parser.
fodkodrasz 1mo ago
> YAML is (or at least, is declared by its maintainers to be) a superset of JSON, making any JSON document also a valid YAML document. > So surely if YAML is streamable, JSON must be too? Given YAML is not a subset, but a superset of JSON, as you correctly noted, I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. > Or are the YAML maintainers incorrect? I think you should check this page before making snarky comments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superset See also the comment below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49476489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49476489 Offtopic note: I wanted to dig the wiki superset link up the lazy way, so searched for superset, and all I got was endless list of marketing trash links. Even on DDG. RIP, we are on the Dead Internet.
- feelamee 1mo ago
  He misspelled subset/superset, but the idea with streaming is right. Given: - YAML support streaming - any JSON is valid YAML Conclusion - any JSON is streaming
  - fodkodrasz 1mo ago
    Nope? The "streamed JSON" needs --- line sparators, which is not a JSON spec feature, thus that data stream is valid YAML from that point, bot not a valid JSON stream. NDJSON is a different beast.
- feelamee 1mo ago
  I think you should check this page before making snarky comments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inference See Examples section.
- dghf 1mo ago
  > snarky comments How was my comment snarky? The YAML maintainers may have intended YAML to be a superset of JSON, but failed by not incorporating some obscure feature of it that bore on whether it was streamable or not.

by dghf 1mo ago

vkazanov 1mo ago

Yaml streams are just yaml docs separated by "---" withing a single file. The json spec just doesnt do anything like that but jsonl does.

boricj 1mo ago

I wrote a C++ library at work that, among other things, serializes/deserializes to JSON, CBOR and BSON. I don't get that point. The first two formats I've implemented as fully streaming, the serializers emit into an output iterator one character/byte at a time and the deserializers only need to hold one value at a time (mostly for strings, and not even for CBOR's byte arrays, which are streamed). BSON requires full document instantiation because of byte offsets and is genuinely anti-streaming in its design. I happen to have implemented a serializer for YAML, fully streaming, mostly as a compact-ish human-readable debug data representation. I can scarcely think of fates worse than having to write a spec-compliant YAML parser.

fodkodrasz 1mo ago

> YAML is (or at least, is declared by its maintainers to be) a superset of JSON, making any JSON document also a valid YAML document. > So surely if YAML is streamable, JSON must be too? Given YAML is not a subset, but a superset of JSON, as you correctly noted, I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. > Or are the YAML maintainers incorrect? I think you should check this page before making snarky comments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superset See also the comment below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49476489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49476489 Offtopic note: I wanted to dig the wiki superset link up the lazy way, so searched for superset, and all I got was endless list of marketing trash links. Even on DDG. RIP, we are on the Dead Internet.

feelamee 1mo ago
He misspelled subset/superset, but the idea with streaming is right. Given: - YAML support streaming - any JSON is valid YAML Conclusion - any JSON is streaming
- fodkodrasz 1mo ago
  Nope? The "streamed JSON" needs --- line sparators, which is not a JSON spec feature, thus that data stream is valid YAML from that point, bot not a valid JSON stream. NDJSON is a different beast.
feelamee 1mo ago
I think you should check this page before making snarky comments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inference See Examples section.
dghf 1mo ago
> snarky comments How was my comment snarky? The YAML maintainers may have intended YAML to be a superset of JSON, but failed by not incorporating some obscure feature of it that bore on whether it was streamable or not.