3 ms·

Ok, this might sound great but it's really not. I live in Switzerland, and they don't use a tap in/tap out system at all. There are no barriers to enter the st

by Gud 1mo ago

Ok, this might sound great but it's really not. I live in Switzerland, and they don't use a tap in/tap out system at all. There are no barriers to enter the station, anywhere. There are multiple ways to purchase a ticket, I usually use the app Fairtiq or the official SBB app, where I swipe right before boarding the train/tram/bus(it's a national system, so even works on the regional networks) and swipe left when I'm done with my travel. It then calculates the best price for me. If I do multiple journeys, it will know what I should have gotten a 24 hour pass, and subsequent travel is free. tap in/tap off sucks no matter how good the system is. It is fundamentally a wrong think. I travel by public transport in many countries, I travel over the world for work, it is my preferred mode of transport. Switzerland has by far the best ideas. Luxembourg is great as well, totally free, but small.

ororoo 1mo ago
go try it out, it works great in japan. it fundamentally works.
- Gud 1mo ago
  I've used many similar systems. Netherlands has an identical system. I prefer when there are no turnstiles or other forms of gates blocking my way. Just step onto the train.
soco 1mo ago
True, the Swiss is the simplest way around - and in planning is to activate it even without swiping (I'm not sure I remember details): But let's face it the tap system is not that far behind, because in some implementations it can do that calculation by itself (I believe having seen it in London?) so at the end of the day you end up paying the optimal price.
- Gud 1mo ago
  The problem is that the tap in/tap off is an unnecessary inconvenience. I often travel with suitcases(always on the road for my work) and it's a pain in the ass sometimes due to the mechanism in my way. Why should I have to fiddle with some card, just to verify I've paid? Every day, for the rest of my life? I prefer the Swiss way, where there are random checks. These random checks are done everywhere else anyway. It just seems that these boundaries have been put in place because some people believe that they are necessary. They may be necessary in some locations(London, like you mentioned) but I doubt they are necessary in Japan.
- cpt_sobel 1mo ago
  They're indeed planning a BiBo (“Be in – Be out”) alternative to EasyRide [0], which will rely on BT beacons placed in the cars and stations, as well as the motion sensors and GPS (like now). [0]: https://www.vybe.ch/ov-wird-einfacher-sbb-testet-automatisches-ticket-system/ https://www.vybe.ch/ov-wird-einfacher-sbb-testet-automatisch...
awruko 1mo ago
from personal experience in swiss system, I always forget to swipe left. Less personal experience: there is also a bit of a stress with swiping right and hopping on the train. If for whatever reason there is a delay (location, network), and you get checked on the train you will pay a fine.
- Gud 1mo ago
  I typically swipe at home before leaving and leave the automatic swipe off, on. Otherwise I swipe off at my desk at the office.
pscanf 1mo ago
I can see how for a local this system might be better, but as a tourist I strongly prefer the tap in/tap out system, especially if I can just use my credit card. I used the SBB app a few times, and it's actually very good, but it's still an "app experience". First, I need to set it up (download, login, add payment method), for which I need an internet connection (which I might not have as soon as I enter the country). Then, every time I need to purchase a ticket I need to open the app and figure out how to do what I need to. Tapping in and out is superior in my view, even though I might end up overpaying a bit (though I'm probably still paying much less than what I'd pay in Switzerland :D ).
- Gud 1mo ago
  Ok, even as a tourist I prefer not to have to fiddle with my card on every ride. I can't comprehend how people can prefer the tap in/tap off. Seems like another unnecessary inconvenience in life to me. Additionally, SBB offers many different ways of purchasing tickets in the app(week ticket, 24 hour pass, etc, etc).
ValdikSS 1mo ago
>tap in/tap off sucks no matter how good the system is. It is fundamentally a wrong think. Tap system doesn't have to end billing period on tap out, if that's what you're trying to say. Moscow/Saint Petersburg cards have many options which you can combine (add-on packages), as well as a regular balance (wallet). "90 minutes unlimited" does how it is named, and if you travel first by metro, then switch to a bus, you pay less in the bus.
- Gud 1mo ago
  As long as there is a barrier, and as long as I have to actively be doing something while moving around, it's a poor system. I enable my travel when I leave home ideally, and and stop it when I have reached my destination. Not at a location most convenient for the train operator.
  - ValdikSS 1mo ago
    I don't know how it works in your country, but in RU you only tap to get in, not to get out. There are no barriers to get out. 1. The card stores not only your ticket/cash data, but also your trips 2. You live far from the metro, so you ride by bus to the metro station. The metro station knows that you've just been on the bus (the bus activated 90 minutes window) and either don't account you or gives you a discount 3. You can also top-up the card using your smartphone with NFC. The smartphone writes data to the card (and can read your balance and a trip of course). But also, if your smartphone don't have NFC or you don't want to install the app, you can top-up using the web and write it to the card anywhere (inside the bus / on a metro station) with the regular validator (it not only reads, but writes the data received from the net as well)

by Gud 1mo ago

ororoo 1mo ago

go try it out, it works great in japan. it fundamentally works.

Gud 1mo ago
I've used many similar systems. Netherlands has an identical system. I prefer when there are no turnstiles or other forms of gates blocking my way. Just step onto the train.

soco 1mo ago

True, the Swiss is the simplest way around - and in planning is to activate it even without swiping (I'm not sure I remember details): But let's face it the tap system is not that far behind, because in some implementations it can do that calculation by itself (I believe having seen it in London?) so at the end of the day you end up paying the optimal price.

Gud 1mo ago
The problem is that the tap in/tap off is an unnecessary inconvenience. I often travel with suitcases(always on the road for my work) and it's a pain in the ass sometimes due to the mechanism in my way. Why should I have to fiddle with some card, just to verify I've paid? Every day, for the rest of my life? I prefer the Swiss way, where there are random checks. These random checks are done everywhere else anyway. It just seems that these boundaries have been put in place because some people believe that they are necessary. They may be necessary in some locations(London, like you mentioned) but I doubt they are necessary in Japan.
cpt_sobel 1mo ago
They're indeed planning a BiBo (“Be in – Be out”) alternative to EasyRide [0], which will rely on BT beacons placed in the cars and stations, as well as the motion sensors and GPS (like now). [0]: https://www.vybe.ch/ov-wird-einfacher-sbb-testet-automatisches-ticket-system/ https://www.vybe.ch/ov-wird-einfacher-sbb-testet-automatisch...

awruko 1mo ago

from personal experience in swiss system, I always forget to swipe left. Less personal experience: there is also a bit of a stress with swiping right and hopping on the train. If for whatever reason there is a delay (location, network), and you get checked on the train you will pay a fine.

Gud 1mo ago
I typically swipe at home before leaving and leave the automatic swipe off, on. Otherwise I swipe off at my desk at the office.

pscanf 1mo ago

I can see how for a local this system might be better, but as a tourist I strongly prefer the tap in/tap out system, especially if I can just use my credit card. I used the SBB app a few times, and it's actually very good, but it's still an "app experience". First, I need to set it up (download, login, add payment method), for which I need an internet connection (which I might not have as soon as I enter the country). Then, every time I need to purchase a ticket I need to open the app and figure out how to do what I need to. Tapping in and out is superior in my view, even though I might end up overpaying a bit (though I'm probably still paying much less than what I'd pay in Switzerland :D ).

Gud 1mo ago
Ok, even as a tourist I prefer not to have to fiddle with my card on every ride. I can't comprehend how people can prefer the tap in/tap off. Seems like another unnecessary inconvenience in life to me. Additionally, SBB offers many different ways of purchasing tickets in the app(week ticket, 24 hour pass, etc, etc).

ValdikSS 1mo ago

>tap in/tap off sucks no matter how good the system is. It is fundamentally a wrong think. Tap system doesn't have to end billing period on tap out, if that's what you're trying to say. Moscow/Saint Petersburg cards have many options which you can combine (add-on packages), as well as a regular balance (wallet). "90 minutes unlimited" does how it is named, and if you travel first by metro, then switch to a bus, you pay less in the bus.

Gud 1mo ago
As long as there is a barrier, and as long as I have to actively be doing something while moving around, it's a poor system. I enable my travel when I leave home ideally, and and stop it when I have reached my destination. Not at a location most convenient for the train operator.
- ValdikSS 1mo ago
  I don't know how it works in your country, but in RU you only tap to get in, not to get out. There are no barriers to get out. 1. The card stores not only your ticket/cash data, but also your trips 2. You live far from the metro, so you ride by bus to the metro station. The metro station knows that you've just been on the bus (the bus activated 90 minutes window) and either don't account you or gives you a discount 3. You can also top-up the card using your smartphone with NFC. The smartphone writes data to the card (and can read your balance and a trip of course). But also, if your smartphone don't have NFC or you don't want to install the app, you can top-up using the web and write it to the card anywhere (inside the bus / on a metro station) with the regular validator (it not only reads, but writes the data received from the net as well)