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Plato thought writing was a lie: > If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on tha

by iamwil 1mo ago

Plato thought writing was a lie: > If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written...And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only its semblance, for by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much, while for the most part they know nothing, and as men filled, not with wisdom, but with the conceit of wisdom, they will be a burden to their fellows. Basically, reading writing (without instruction) will only make people seem like they know stuff, by parroting others, when in fact, they know not much of anything.

fdsfsdfsdfds 1mo ago
> Plato thought writing was a lie Which is an intriguing argument considering he .. wrote it down and not just once. He was a prolific author. He also speaks _through_ other people, mostly Socrates, which complicates matters quite a bit. You're getting a narrative as told by someone inside the narrative about the nature of narration itself. I'd be hesitant to linearize Plato. There's quite a bit of subtlety to his arguments. That said, I understand the sentiment. Just want to introduce some nuance into the statement. I'd hate it if people thought Plato could just be pinned down like that.
- kodoman 1mo ago
  Second that it's unlikely that Plato agrees with Socrates on writing in the Phaedrus. When reading Plato you should think of him as writing dialogues for people to see various arguments and arguments develop over the books, for example Timaeus goes against positions held by Socrates and even more so later in the Parmenides. Plato is not linear either and if you really want to understand what Plato held you have to look at what the academy taught and what the Platonism became. Though clearly Platonism develops and changes and has various different flavors that academics pick out such as middle-platonism and neo-platonism. I would say it's not definite what Plato believed and one might say that he entertained multiple ideas at the same time, though clearly despised many positions.

by iamwil 1mo ago

fdsfsdfsdfds 1mo ago

> Plato thought writing was a lie Which is an intriguing argument considering he .. wrote it down and not just once. He was a prolific author. He also speaks _through_ other people, mostly Socrates, which complicates matters quite a bit. You're getting a narrative as told by someone inside the narrative about the nature of narration itself. I'd be hesitant to linearize Plato. There's quite a bit of subtlety to his arguments. That said, I understand the sentiment. Just want to introduce some nuance into the statement. I'd hate it if people thought Plato could just be pinned down like that.

kodoman 1mo ago
Second that it's unlikely that Plato agrees with Socrates on writing in the Phaedrus. When reading Plato you should think of him as writing dialogues for people to see various arguments and arguments develop over the books, for example Timaeus goes against positions held by Socrates and even more so later in the Parmenides. Plato is not linear either and if you really want to understand what Plato held you have to look at what the academy taught and what the Platonism became. Though clearly Platonism develops and changes and has various different flavors that academics pick out such as middle-platonism and neo-platonism. I would say it's not definite what Plato believed and one might say that he entertained multiple ideas at the same time, though clearly despised many positions.