4 ms·

Your stance is that cultures are cardinally sortable things, with specific ones being more 'valuable' or 'better,' that you are allowed to be bigoted toward 'de

Your stance is that cultures are cardinally sortable things, with specific ones being more 'valuable' or 'better,' that you are allowed to be bigoted toward 'degenerate' ones, and imo you're taking it as a sort of consolation prize since you're not allowed to discriminate based on race. Just be bigoted on race, man. The richest man in the world does it, nothing stopping you from doing it too. You don't have to hide it in this era. Alternatively you can think harder and understand that the world is a complicated place, cultures can't be assigned numerical values and sorted, there's more variety within cultures than between them and have all sorts of circumstances and history that explain their situations that go beyond 'this culture is 3.75 eugenic units better than that one.'

rayiner 1mo ago
Again, culture isn’t an immutable characteristic, so the moral framework you’re using doesn’t apply. You should treat culture the same way Silicon Valley startups do. You emulate the successful ones and learn lessons from the unsuccessful ones. European culture is itself a product of that process. When the Germanic tribes conquered Rome, they didn’t impose their own culture on the Romans. Instead they adopted Romans’ self-evidently more successful culture, law, and institutions.
- mullingitover 1mo ago
  > You emulate the successful ones and learn lessons from the unsuccessful ones. Please elaborate on what defines 'successful' and 'unsuccessful' cultures, and while you're at it let me know what the heck 'European culture' is? Or 'Roman culture' for that matter. I'm honestly lost.
  - rayiner 1mo ago
    > Please elaborate on what defines 'successful' and 'unsuccessful' cultures Building steam engines, rockets, the Internet, etc. > and while you're at it let me know what the heck 'European culture' is? European culture is one of the most well studied subjects in the world. It’s the culture that resulted from Roman colonization, followed by German conquest of Rome and the spread of Roman customs, language, law throughout Europe alongside Christianity. It’s why Slovenia and Spain both have a legal tradition built on Roman civil law. It’s why British law is full of Latin terms.
    - mullingitover 1mo ago
      Ok so the yardstick for sorting cultures is purely inventions. Got it. Also: European culture is a discrete thing you can either be in or out of, and it's a combination of legal system and language. In addition, the Romans were a homogenous group of people with the same language and customs, and they were Christian. I've made note of this, thank you for clarifying.
      - rayiner 1mo ago
        It’s not just inventions, but the social structures and civic institutions that enable a society to build something like the Apollo program. Culture doesn’t need to be “discrete” or “homogenous” in order to exist. “Arab culture” also exists, despite regional variations. Law and language are critical aspects of society that indicate a shared culture despite local variations. Yes, during the relevant period, Romans were Christian. It became the majority religion in the roman empire by 400 AD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography_of_the_Christianization_of_the_Roman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography_of_the_Christia... European culture is one of the most well studied things in the world. You should read about it.
        mullingitover 1mo ago
        > It’s not just inventions, but the social structures and civic institutions that enable a society to build something like the Apollo program. But you’re saying that it’s the inventions that make certain cultures superior, the other stuff is just there to enable the inventions. So for example China is building far more advanced infrastructure and high tech equipment right now, thus their culture is superior to European culture. What’s your proposal to help European culture the level of advancement that Chinese culture has achieved ?

rayiner 1mo ago

Again, culture isn’t an immutable characteristic, so the moral framework you’re using doesn’t apply. You should treat culture the same way Silicon Valley startups do. You emulate the successful ones and learn lessons from the unsuccessful ones. European culture is itself a product of that process. When the Germanic tribes conquered Rome, they didn’t impose their own culture on the Romans. Instead they adopted Romans’ self-evidently more successful culture, law, and institutions.

mullingitover 1mo ago
> You emulate the successful ones and learn lessons from the unsuccessful ones. Please elaborate on what defines 'successful' and 'unsuccessful' cultures, and while you're at it let me know what the heck 'European culture' is? Or 'Roman culture' for that matter. I'm honestly lost.
- rayiner 1mo ago
  > Please elaborate on what defines 'successful' and 'unsuccessful' cultures Building steam engines, rockets, the Internet, etc. > and while you're at it let me know what the heck 'European culture' is? European culture is one of the most well studied subjects in the world. It’s the culture that resulted from Roman colonization, followed by German conquest of Rome and the spread of Roman customs, language, law throughout Europe alongside Christianity. It’s why Slovenia and Spain both have a legal tradition built on Roman civil law. It’s why British law is full of Latin terms.
  - mullingitover 1mo ago
    Ok so the yardstick for sorting cultures is purely inventions. Got it. Also: European culture is a discrete thing you can either be in or out of, and it's a combination of legal system and language. In addition, the Romans were a homogenous group of people with the same language and customs, and they were Christian. I've made note of this, thank you for clarifying.
    - rayiner 1mo ago
      It’s not just inventions, but the social structures and civic institutions that enable a society to build something like the Apollo program. Culture doesn’t need to be “discrete” or “homogenous” in order to exist. “Arab culture” also exists, despite regional variations. Law and language are critical aspects of society that indicate a shared culture despite local variations. Yes, during the relevant period, Romans were Christian. It became the majority religion in the roman empire by 400 AD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography_of_the_Christianization_of_the_Roman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historiography_of_the_Christia... European culture is one of the most well studied things in the world. You should read about it.
      - mullingitover 1mo ago
        > It’s not just inventions, but the social structures and civic institutions that enable a society to build something like the Apollo program. But you’re saying that it’s the inventions that make certain cultures superior, the other stuff is just there to enable the inventions. So for example China is building far more advanced infrastructure and high tech equipment right now, thus their culture is superior to European culture. What’s your proposal to help European culture the level of advancement that Chinese culture has achieved ?