4 ms·

Brave to say on one of the most autistic web forums that autistic people have something that's broken :|

krapp 2mo ago
This isn't /g/ what are you talking about?
djaro 2mo ago
I mean, it's classified as a disability for a good reason. I would guess that even if this platform has more autistic people due to being tech focused, autistic tech nerds and programmers are on the extreme end of high-functioning. Many low-functioning autistic people will never be able to have a job or live by themselves. This is the same issue as high-functioning ADHD'ers saying "ADHD is my superpower", meanwhile people with severe ADHD do significantly worse than the general population in basically any metric, up to having a lower life expectancy. This isnt to say its morally bad, theres nothing wrong with being autistic or having ADHD, but it is a disability. Just like someone who's deaf can live a totally happy life but still be disabled because they are not able to hear, someone with autism is disabled because they are not able to process social cues at the same speed, even if they are a great person and have a good life.
- seanhandley 2mo ago
  It depends, and that’s the point. It’s such a wide concept. Essentially it boils down to how a brain processes sensory information and at what point it becomes overwhelmed. We all have tolerances set at different gauges. It’s a disability if it’s at odds with the environment a person finds themselves in.
- forestrywat 2mo ago
  "Have a disability" and "broken" are not synonyms. There's no judgement or moralizing in having a disability. Autism and ADHD like you mentioned are disabilities. But the people who have them are not broken. Having a disability means some part of your life is more difficult. But that's very very different from you as a person are broken. For example, if you can fix the environment and the person can now function equally to someone without a disability, then maybe it's the environment that's broken. If you can fix the social expectation and suddenly the person can function equally, then maybe the society is broken. Even if you cannot accommodate the person's needs, insinuating they are broken is not a great framing -- it creates a sense of pity rather than constructively looking at means to support them.
  - nick__m 2mo ago
    What else but pity should I feel toward non verbal autistic people?
    - kelseyfrog 2mo ago
      Compassion?
      - forestrywat 2mo ago
        Love? Affection? Friendship? Camaraderie? Care? All the stuff you feel towards any other human?
  - hoppp 2mo ago
    What is strange about the disability is when neurotypicals attack autists. It takes less then 1 second for the negative bias to trigger. If you see a person without legs, do you tell him he is a piece of shit because he can't run? So why harass autistic people?
    - switchbak 2mo ago
      That's just people though, if you walk around with a scar on your head you'll see lots of knee-jerk immediate reactions. Some people are able to mediate those initial reactions and be kind, others just go with it and treat people poorly. Yes - some people are a'holes, and treat those without legs poorly. The same is true of basically anyone that doesn't fit into what you typically see - there's always some people that will treat them poorly. It's unfortunate, but was probably adaptive during our evolution, and something we just have to deal with today.
    - aleph_minus_one 2mo ago
      > If you see a person without legs, do you tell him he is a piece of shit because he can't run? So why harass autistic people? If you have not yet realized it, here is a black pill for you: most people are deeply manipulative and bullying basically all the time. For example nearly all social rules that are commonly accepted in society are basically about which kinds of manipulations and bullying of other people are accepted by most people vs not. With this in mind, the answer to your question > So why harass autistic people? is trivial: because it is currently socially mostly accepted.
- iinnPP 2mo ago
  The problem is assuming the social cues are important at this point in evolution. I'd say the opposite is true, frankly. I'm more worried about people's inability to follow simple instructions, like making a hamburger correctly.
  - hoppp 2mo ago
    Social cues are important for reproduction. An autist guy might not notice when girls are attracted to him. So the chances of reproduction are lower.
    - inigyou 2mo ago
      As an autistic man, I'm still not convinced women are attracted to men. At all.
SubiculumCode 2mo ago
Autism is a spectrum. Neurodiversity within and outside of autism is both intrinsically valuable and extrinsically valuable to society. However, not all phenotypes of autism should be viewed as neurodiversity, but as harmful. There is only so much that society can do to make severe intellectual impairments less disabling without identifying a cure for the intellectual impairment. The debate between medical versus disability models, neurodiversity versus pathology, inevitably gets pushed by those that want to classify everything into clean essentialist boxes, but that, I do not believe, is a helpful way to view the world. Not every condition is a pathology, nor is every condition benign if only society would do more to make it less disabling.

krapp 2mo ago

This isn't /g/ what are you talking about?

djaro 2mo ago

I mean, it's classified as a disability for a good reason. I would guess that even if this platform has more autistic people due to being tech focused, autistic tech nerds and programmers are on the extreme end of high-functioning. Many low-functioning autistic people will never be able to have a job or live by themselves. This is the same issue as high-functioning ADHD'ers saying "ADHD is my superpower", meanwhile people with severe ADHD do significantly worse than the general population in basically any metric, up to having a lower life expectancy. This isnt to say its morally bad, theres nothing wrong with being autistic or having ADHD, but it is a disability. Just like someone who's deaf can live a totally happy life but still be disabled because they are not able to hear, someone with autism is disabled because they are not able to process social cues at the same speed, even if they are a great person and have a good life.

seanhandley 2mo ago
It depends, and that’s the point. It’s such a wide concept. Essentially it boils down to how a brain processes sensory information and at what point it becomes overwhelmed. We all have tolerances set at different gauges. It’s a disability if it’s at odds with the environment a person finds themselves in.
forestrywat 2mo ago
"Have a disability" and "broken" are not synonyms. There's no judgement or moralizing in having a disability. Autism and ADHD like you mentioned are disabilities. But the people who have them are not broken. Having a disability means some part of your life is more difficult. But that's very very different from you as a person are broken. For example, if you can fix the environment and the person can now function equally to someone without a disability, then maybe it's the environment that's broken. If you can fix the social expectation and suddenly the person can function equally, then maybe the society is broken. Even if you cannot accommodate the person's needs, insinuating they are broken is not a great framing -- it creates a sense of pity rather than constructively looking at means to support them.
- nick__m 2mo ago
  What else but pity should I feel toward non verbal autistic people?
  - kelseyfrog 2mo ago
    Compassion?
    - forestrywat 2mo ago
      Love? Affection? Friendship? Camaraderie? Care? All the stuff you feel towards any other human?
- hoppp 2mo ago
  What is strange about the disability is when neurotypicals attack autists. It takes less then 1 second for the negative bias to trigger. If you see a person without legs, do you tell him he is a piece of shit because he can't run? So why harass autistic people?
  - switchbak 2mo ago
    That's just people though, if you walk around with a scar on your head you'll see lots of knee-jerk immediate reactions. Some people are able to mediate those initial reactions and be kind, others just go with it and treat people poorly. Yes - some people are a'holes, and treat those without legs poorly. The same is true of basically anyone that doesn't fit into what you typically see - there's always some people that will treat them poorly. It's unfortunate, but was probably adaptive during our evolution, and something we just have to deal with today.
  - aleph_minus_one 2mo ago
    > If you see a person without legs, do you tell him he is a piece of shit because he can't run? So why harass autistic people? If you have not yet realized it, here is a black pill for you: most people are deeply manipulative and bullying basically all the time. For example nearly all social rules that are commonly accepted in society are basically about which kinds of manipulations and bullying of other people are accepted by most people vs not. With this in mind, the answer to your question > So why harass autistic people? is trivial: because it is currently socially mostly accepted.
iinnPP 2mo ago
The problem is assuming the social cues are important at this point in evolution. I'd say the opposite is true, frankly. I'm more worried about people's inability to follow simple instructions, like making a hamburger correctly.
- hoppp 2mo ago
  Social cues are important for reproduction. An autist guy might not notice when girls are attracted to him. So the chances of reproduction are lower.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    As an autistic man, I'm still not convinced women are attracted to men. At all.

SubiculumCode 2mo ago

Autism is a spectrum. Neurodiversity within and outside of autism is both intrinsically valuable and extrinsically valuable to society. However, not all phenotypes of autism should be viewed as neurodiversity, but as harmful. There is only so much that society can do to make severe intellectual impairments less disabling without identifying a cure for the intellectual impairment. The debate between medical versus disability models, neurodiversity versus pathology, inevitably gets pushed by those that want to classify everything into clean essentialist boxes, but that, I do not believe, is a helpful way to view the world. Not every condition is a pathology, nor is every condition benign if only society would do more to make it less disabling.