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> Of course I'm not racist, I have black friends It’s weird that you think my point is about the superficial optics of having immigrants in Trump’s coalition,

by rayiner 2mo ago

> Of course I'm not racist, I have black friends It’s weird that you think my point is about the superficial optics of having immigrants in Trump’s coalition, rather than about the motivations of the immigrant voters themselves. > So just because someone is the same race/culture as you doesn't mean they aren't racist against that culture You can’t be “racist” against a culture. Racism is wrong because race is superficial—how much sunscreen someone does or does not need is as irrelevant as hair color or eye color. But culture isn’t superficial. Culture has major impacts on the types of societies people create. Your family member’s viewpoint is totally rational, and frankly, more rational than the opposite. If you come from a country that’s dysfunctional and unsuccessful, why wouldn’t you dislike that place’s culture? It’s like someone who left some failing dinosaur company to go to a high performance startup saying that the culture at the new company is better.

mullingitover 2mo ago
> You can’t be “racist” against a culture. Counterpoint: yes you can[1] and it's basically what you're advocating. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_racism
- crises-luff-6b 2mo ago
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- rayiner 2mo ago
  Your article clearly describes that as a concept that as been put forward for debate but hasn’t been generally accepted. And it shouldn’t be accepted. It’s just an attempt to use people’s rightful aversion to prejudice based on skin color to Trojan Horse cultural relativism through the gate. Cultural relativism is not morally required. People’s attitudes, beliefs, customs, habits, and ways of looking at the world substantively impact the societies people create. And we can judge cultures on that basis. In the Star Trek future, people of all ethnicities think and act like Anglo-Americans, not like Bangladeshis.
  - mullingitover 2mo ago
    > In the Star Trek future, people of all ethnicities think and act like Anglo-Americans, not like Bangladeshis. That's a weird way to cap off an endorsement of cultural racism? A series of fictional stories about the future, by and for Americans, tells a story that Americans would want to hear: QED, monolithic American culture is obviously the future. Let's get this paper submitted for peer review.
    - rayiner 2mo ago
      That term isn’t an accepted thing, as your own article points out. Your idea is also itself racist by treating race and culture as linked. I guess that in your version of Star Trek the Desi characters would be showing up hours late to dinner. You’d have bridge scenes where face saving communications and excessive deference to seniority impedes information flow and gets everyone killed. I think the actual Star Trek paints a much more optimistic and hopeful vision of a post-racial society where everyone in the Federation adopts Anglo-American culture and values.
      - mullingitover 2mo ago
        > That term isn’t an accepted thing, as your own article points out. Gravity and the spherical shape of the earth also aren't 'accepted things,' this 'I don't like it so it's not real' argument isn't really a coherent counterpoint.
        rayiner 2mo ago
        Articles about gravity don’t say “gravity should be considered a fundamental force,” as in the article you pointed to above. “Racism” as the word is generally accepted refers to skin color. It has nothing to do with culture. You’re playing word games to advance the position that culture should be treated the way society treats immutable characteristics, when those two things are completely different.
        2mo ago

by rayiner 2mo ago

mullingitover 2mo ago

> You can’t be “racist” against a culture. Counterpoint: yes you can[1] and it's basically what you're advocating. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_racism

crises-luff-6b 2mo ago
[dead]
rayiner 2mo ago
Your article clearly describes that as a concept that as been put forward for debate but hasn’t been generally accepted. And it shouldn’t be accepted. It’s just an attempt to use people’s rightful aversion to prejudice based on skin color to Trojan Horse cultural relativism through the gate. Cultural relativism is not morally required. People’s attitudes, beliefs, customs, habits, and ways of looking at the world substantively impact the societies people create. And we can judge cultures on that basis. In the Star Trek future, people of all ethnicities think and act like Anglo-Americans, not like Bangladeshis.
- mullingitover 2mo ago
  > In the Star Trek future, people of all ethnicities think and act like Anglo-Americans, not like Bangladeshis. That's a weird way to cap off an endorsement of cultural racism? A series of fictional stories about the future, by and for Americans, tells a story that Americans would want to hear: QED, monolithic American culture is obviously the future. Let's get this paper submitted for peer review.
  - rayiner 2mo ago
    That term isn’t an accepted thing, as your own article points out. Your idea is also itself racist by treating race and culture as linked. I guess that in your version of Star Trek the Desi characters would be showing up hours late to dinner. You’d have bridge scenes where face saving communications and excessive deference to seniority impedes information flow and gets everyone killed. I think the actual Star Trek paints a much more optimistic and hopeful vision of a post-racial society where everyone in the Federation adopts Anglo-American culture and values.
    - mullingitover 2mo ago
      > That term isn’t an accepted thing, as your own article points out. Gravity and the spherical shape of the earth also aren't 'accepted things,' this 'I don't like it so it's not real' argument isn't really a coherent counterpoint.
      - rayiner 2mo ago
        Articles about gravity don’t say “gravity should be considered a fundamental force,” as in the article you pointed to above. “Racism” as the word is generally accepted refers to skin color. It has nothing to do with culture. You’re playing word games to advance the position that culture should be treated the way society treats immutable characteristics, when those two things are completely different.
        2mo ago