5 ms·

I totally agree trade should feel fair. If the US sends jobs, money, food or goods to other countries, then we shouldn't get garbage back. Tariffs are a way of

I totally agree trade should feel fair. If the US sends jobs, money, food or goods to other countries, then we shouldn't get garbage back. Tariffs are a way of warning other countries "don’t take us for a ride." They help American workers, factories and towns that were hurt when jobs went overseas. Tariffs shouldn't feel like hurting yourself for no reason. They are an important tool for standing up for yourself when other countries (to say nothing of bad trade deals) want to take advantage of you

squigz 2mo ago
It also seems to ignore the companies and individuals that got rich because they chose to move jobs overseas.
- CGMthrowaway 2mo ago
  Totally, that is a great and valid add
hartator 2mo ago
Tarrifs are the worst decision a politician can make. The main reason we have open-ish border for people and goods is to reduce the risk of war. You are not going to wage war with a country that do business with. This undermines this idea.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  There's never been a war the US has chosen not to start.
- CGMthrowaway 2mo ago
  Maybe letting other countries rob us blind is worse. The US has hardly any factories left. Is that "peace" or is that just losing, slowly? Open borders can be GREAT, but they can also be a point of vulnerability if we lose control of them
  - analog31 2mo ago
    They're not robbing us blind. They're taking care of our manufacturing so that we can invest in things like the financial industry, fossil fuels, and AI.
    - 9x39 2mo ago
      This is great until you're at war (economic or kinetic) with who does your manufacturing. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.
  - padjo 2mo ago
    Who exactly is robbing you blind? Could it be your own billionaire class?
  - phaedryx 2mo ago
    Trade happens because both sides agree and make an exchange. I don't understand how "other countries rob us blind."
  - warkdarrior 2mo ago
    > The US has hardly any factories left. Feel free to start your own factory in US, nobody is stopping you. Just keep in mind that for commoditized products (most consumer stuff, for example), prices are all that matter. "Buy American" is not a product feature.
    - cooggog 2mo ago
      Some years ago. I learned about a new -ish technology that fascinated me. I started to research ways to get in on the development of this technology: i.e. what sort of opportunities might there be for a startup or small business in the space. The answer I found was very sobering and mildly depressing. There was no room for developing the technology itself. That had already been done by large companies with the capital and resources to commoditize things early. Instead, the real opportunities were found in business/management consulting selling the product and tangential things, like having a construction company to help build out infrastructure needed for the technology. At this point I think technology no longer interests me because it doesn’t have a place for me.
- jpadkins 2mo ago
  Then why did Canadian politicians tax milk products at > 200%? https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/2024/html/00/ch04-eng.html#wb-auto-4 https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/2024... (starting long before the current trade war)
  - bigyabai 2mo ago
    It's a surplus tax, and one that apparently doesn't exist for the majority of dairy imports: https://archive.is/kKsYc https://archive.is/kKsYc that tariff would only apply if we were able to reach and exceed the quota on U.S. dairy exports agreed to under the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA). [...] the U.S. has never gotten close to exceeding our USMCA quotas
    - jpadkins 2mo ago
      thanks, key quote from the link (for others) "“It is accurate that Canada imposes a tariff of approximately 250% on U.S. exports of certain dairy products into Canada, and even more with Canada’s 25% retaliatory tariffs in place. However, that tariff would only apply if we were able to reach and exceed the quota on U.S. dairy exports agreed to under the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA). Frustratingly, the U.S. has never gotten close to exceeding our USMCA quotas because Canada has erected various protectionist measures that fly in the face of their trade obligations made under USMCA." So I think this supports the point that Canadian politicians are bad for protectionist trade policies, right?
- upboundspiral 2mo ago
  The idea that trade decreases the risk of war is old. It dates back to pre-WW1. Think tanks around Europe were celebrating an "end to hostilities". And then WW1 happened. Trade does not prevent war. War is not always a rational consequence or act. What does prevent war is a good standard of living. Eliminate resentment, and one of the great causes of war is lost. Whether you need tariffs or not to ensure good standard of living I don't know. But the goal should always be to increase standard of living and uphold justice, tariffs or not.
phaedryx 2mo ago
You act as if it's the countries that are doing the trading; it's not. It is the businesses and other entities within the countries that are doing it. They are doing it because it benefits them. If a company is doing overseas manufacturing it is because they benefit and it isn't the United States that made that decision.
Hammershaft 2mo ago
Economists universally think tariffs are dumb policy. https://kentclarkcenter.org/surveys/steel-and-aluminum-tariffs/ https://kentclarkcenter.org/surveys/steel-and-aluminum-tarif... Literally 100% of the 50 expert economists polled by the Kent Clark Center think tariffs overall make Americans worse off. Nobody in politics can say this simple truth because the rust belt states are critical swing states.
- tim333 2mo ago
  You've posted that five times now. Bit excessive?
  - Hammershaft 2mo ago
    Unfortunately there are a lot more than 5 people saying the same misinformation in the comments.

squigz 2mo ago

It also seems to ignore the companies and individuals that got rich because they chose to move jobs overseas.

CGMthrowaway 2mo ago
Totally, that is a great and valid add

hartator 2mo ago

Tarrifs are the worst decision a politician can make. The main reason we have open-ish border for people and goods is to reduce the risk of war. You are not going to wage war with a country that do business with. This undermines this idea.

inigyou 2mo ago
There's never been a war the US has chosen not to start.
CGMthrowaway 2mo ago
Maybe letting other countries rob us blind is worse. The US has hardly any factories left. Is that "peace" or is that just losing, slowly? Open borders can be GREAT, but they can also be a point of vulnerability if we lose control of them
- analog31 2mo ago
  They're not robbing us blind. They're taking care of our manufacturing so that we can invest in things like the financial industry, fossil fuels, and AI.
  - 9x39 2mo ago
    This is great until you're at war (economic or kinetic) with who does your manufacturing. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.
- padjo 2mo ago
  Who exactly is robbing you blind? Could it be your own billionaire class?
- phaedryx 2mo ago
  Trade happens because both sides agree and make an exchange. I don't understand how "other countries rob us blind."
- warkdarrior 2mo ago
  > The US has hardly any factories left. Feel free to start your own factory in US, nobody is stopping you. Just keep in mind that for commoditized products (most consumer stuff, for example), prices are all that matter. "Buy American" is not a product feature.
  - cooggog 2mo ago
    Some years ago. I learned about a new -ish technology that fascinated me. I started to research ways to get in on the development of this technology: i.e. what sort of opportunities might there be for a startup or small business in the space. The answer I found was very sobering and mildly depressing. There was no room for developing the technology itself. That had already been done by large companies with the capital and resources to commoditize things early. Instead, the real opportunities were found in business/management consulting selling the product and tangential things, like having a construction company to help build out infrastructure needed for the technology. At this point I think technology no longer interests me because it doesn’t have a place for me.
jpadkins 2mo ago
Then why did Canadian politicians tax milk products at > 200%? https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/2024/html/00/ch04-eng.html#wb-auto-4 https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/2024... (starting long before the current trade war)
- bigyabai 2mo ago
  It's a surplus tax, and one that apparently doesn't exist for the majority of dairy imports: https://archive.is/kKsYc https://archive.is/kKsYc that tariff would only apply if we were able to reach and exceed the quota on U.S. dairy exports agreed to under the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA). [...] the U.S. has never gotten close to exceeding our USMCA quotas
  - jpadkins 2mo ago
    thanks, key quote from the link (for others) "“It is accurate that Canada imposes a tariff of approximately 250% on U.S. exports of certain dairy products into Canada, and even more with Canada’s 25% retaliatory tariffs in place. However, that tariff would only apply if we were able to reach and exceed the quota on U.S. dairy exports agreed to under the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA). Frustratingly, the U.S. has never gotten close to exceeding our USMCA quotas because Canada has erected various protectionist measures that fly in the face of their trade obligations made under USMCA." So I think this supports the point that Canadian politicians are bad for protectionist trade policies, right?
upboundspiral 2mo ago
The idea that trade decreases the risk of war is old. It dates back to pre-WW1. Think tanks around Europe were celebrating an "end to hostilities". And then WW1 happened. Trade does not prevent war. War is not always a rational consequence or act. What does prevent war is a good standard of living. Eliminate resentment, and one of the great causes of war is lost. Whether you need tariffs or not to ensure good standard of living I don't know. But the goal should always be to increase standard of living and uphold justice, tariffs or not.

phaedryx 2mo ago

You act as if it's the countries that are doing the trading; it's not. It is the businesses and other entities within the countries that are doing it. They are doing it because it benefits them. If a company is doing overseas manufacturing it is because they benefit and it isn't the United States that made that decision.

Hammershaft 2mo ago

Economists universally think tariffs are dumb policy. https://kentclarkcenter.org/surveys/steel-and-aluminum-tariffs/ https://kentclarkcenter.org/surveys/steel-and-aluminum-tarif... Literally 100% of the 50 expert economists polled by the Kent Clark Center think tariffs overall make Americans worse off. Nobody in politics can say this simple truth because the rust belt states are critical swing states.

tim333 2mo ago
You've posted that five times now. Bit excessive?
- Hammershaft 2mo ago
  Unfortunately there are a lot more than 5 people saying the same misinformation in the comments.