3 ms·

This is a pretty reductive take. If a nation works 6 days a week, 12 hours a shift then obviously they will outcompete any nation where people work 5 days a wee

This is a pretty reductive take. If a nation works 6 days a week, 12 hours a shift then obviously they will outcompete any nation where people work 5 days a week for 8 hours. Protecting workers from that kind of competition seems fair. Tariffs aren't bad in itself. They are just a tool. Unfortunately fools wielding a tool like this can cause a lot of damage, but that's true for any tool.

eigenspace 1mo ago
I don't think the comic is claiming that all tariffs in any context are bad, that would indeed be a reductive, bad take. Given the timing and the metaphor of blood being sent to and from a limb, this is almost surely a reference to the tariff threats against Canada.
- apexalpha 1mo ago
  Oh this is a good point. I was not aware of new developments with US-Canada today, that makes the more-than-normal stingy reactions expected. Sorry, I'm European and can't keep up with the erratic US Gov. I read a summary at the end of the week.
  - AnimalMuppet 1mo ago
    The US would be better off if more people followed your example.
simlevesque 1mo ago
I never realized I've been working this much.
fg137 1mo ago
That is a ... pretty reductive take as well.
neaden 1mo ago
"If a nation works 6 days a week, 12 hours a shift then obviously they will outcompete any nation where people work 5 days a week for 8 hours." - This is not obviously true to me, can you explain why it is for you?
- budman1 1mo ago
  Although it is not a law of nature, and it is not linear across the hours.. In general if I work M-F more work will be done that if I just work on Monday morning.
  - MeetingsBrowser 1mo ago
    It is clear that more work is done if you go from 1 day to 5 or 1 hour to 8, but that still includes plenty of time for rest. Does the same hold for going from 5 days to 7 days or 8 hours to 16 hours? A reasonable person should agree at some point adding more time will make people less productive due to lack of breaks, rest, etc. Is it obvious where the line is? if so, where?
  - kennywinker 1mo ago
    So you’re saying if I work at mcdonalds 60 hours a week i’ll make more than an investment banker working 40 hours a week? Awesome, i’m filling out a job application now!
  - upboundspiral 1mo ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-day_workweek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-day_workweek "As of July 2022, more than 80 UK companies and organisations are recognised as having permanently implemented a four-day working week" "As 50% of workers claim improved productivity during the period, the Manufacturing Technology Centre (MTC) announced it will permanently provide a four-day workweek to its 820 employees"
- apexalpha 1mo ago
  Imagine a factory line where each worker makes 10 items per hour. In, say, China a worker doing 996 will make 720 items. Te average working hours in the Netherlands are 36 hours or so per week. Making 360 items. As long as there is free trade the Chinese factory will simply outproduce the Dutch one since they utilise their capex better. Obviously European workers can't be reasonably asked to compete in an open market when labour laws, salary, health inspection etc... in China are at a 1920 Dutch level.
thcipriani 1mo ago
The comic satirizes the 2026 US tariff rationale, vs. worker protection tariffs. But I do often think about Noam Chomsky's opposition to NAFTA[0] when talking heads explain why tariffs are bad. [0]: <https://chomsky.info/secrets03/ https://chomsky.info/secrets03/>
Kim_Bruning 1mo ago
Just as a note: if you work 6x12 shifts, you're actually working less efficiently, because you'll be regularly fatigued, make more mistakes, need more rework, etc etc. You might end up with the same net yield as if you'd done 3x6 hour shifts. (edit: And only if you don't fall asleep at the controls and destroy the factory first. 12 hour shifts are brutal. At least one place I know bans you the next day if you exceed 11h, for your own protection if nothing else) (edit2: This was documented in the 1st world war when munitions factories that tried to ramp up by increasing shift durations past a certain point ended up hardly improving productivity, but did increase accident and sickness rates to the point that it was starting to hurt the war effort. )
edgyquant 1mo ago
Unfortunately in our hyper partisan, sound bite, climate you can’t discuss the trade offs of tax policies anymore you either support the party line or you’re the enemy.
- apexalpha 1mo ago
  I am European... Tariffs are completely normal here we protect our workers all the time. It seems I've 'stung the wasps nest' on HN by not denouncing them outright it seems.
  - MattCruikshank 1mo ago
    How many 100% tariffs do you have on every good from an entire country? A scalpel is one thing. Dynamite is something else.
    - apexalpha 1mo ago
      I was not aware this comic was a reation to new developments for US-CAN. I thought it was just a generic take on tarrifs and responded accordingly. I agree the current US strategy behind tariffs is pretty retarded. Good example of fools trying to use a powerful tool.
      - MattCruikshank 1mo ago
        Yeah, I think you've got it. Agreeing with you and continuing my thought: If I had to guess at the comic author's intention... It's commentary that the logic is flawed. If this is why you're doing tariffs, you're not using them correctly. Not that tariffs should never be used.
    - edgyquant 1mo ago
      Context is important. 100% tariffs on Canada is stupid, 100% tariffs on China because we don’t want any industry dependent on a major military adversary is something worth discussing even if the answer is to not do that in the end
cdrnsf 1mo ago
My dad worked 12 hour shifts for decades (4 days on, 4 days off). Anyone working 72 hours a week isn't going to last long.
throw0101d 1mo ago
> This is a pretty reductive take. Yes, because it's a one-panel comic.
thisisit 1mo ago
> Protecting workers from that kind of competition seems fair. Tariffs aren't bad in itself. They are just a tool. At the cost of consumers paying for goods/services? Your take is as reductive as the take in the comics. People in a nation working 5 days a week for 8 hours are getting paid less and less over time. Heck lot of people now need double shifts to make ends meet totaling up to 12 hr or even more. They can only afford a Christmas light from the nation mass producing it by working 6 days a week, 12 hr shift. And lets not pretend this was only about protecting workers. There were multiple agendas: 1. Bring back jobs 2. Remove trade barriers between countries 3. Make US rich by collecting huge amount of tariffs All three can't be true at the same time. If jobs are brought back then you aren't going to collect huge amount of tariffs because nothing is being produced outside. If trade barriers are removed then that comes at a cost of slashing tariffs so you can't really collect huge amount of tariffs. The foolish reasoning highlighted in the comics is the reason there is so much trade war.
Hammershaft 1mo ago
Have you ever heard of comparative advantage?
Lamires 1mo ago
> If a nation works 6 days a week, 12 hours a shift then obviously they will outcompete any nation where people work 5 days a week for 8 hours. If a nation has a decades-long technological lead over another nation, then obviously it will outcompete it in many industries and enjoy major advantages in trade. But somehow that advantage doesn't seem to count in your argument. Cherry-picking one side's advantages is not an analysis of international trade; it's just bias.

eigenspace 1mo ago

I don't think the comic is claiming that all tariffs in any context are bad, that would indeed be a reductive, bad take. Given the timing and the metaphor of blood being sent to and from a limb, this is almost surely a reference to the tariff threats against Canada.

apexalpha 1mo ago
Oh this is a good point. I was not aware of new developments with US-Canada today, that makes the more-than-normal stingy reactions expected. Sorry, I'm European and can't keep up with the erratic US Gov. I read a summary at the end of the week.
- AnimalMuppet 1mo ago
  The US would be better off if more people followed your example.

simlevesque 1mo ago

I never realized I've been working this much.

fg137 1mo ago

That is a ... pretty reductive take as well.

neaden 1mo ago

"If a nation works 6 days a week, 12 hours a shift then obviously they will outcompete any nation where people work 5 days a week for 8 hours." - This is not obviously true to me, can you explain why it is for you?

budman1 1mo ago
Although it is not a law of nature, and it is not linear across the hours.. In general if I work M-F more work will be done that if I just work on Monday morning.
- MeetingsBrowser 1mo ago
  It is clear that more work is done if you go from 1 day to 5 or 1 hour to 8, but that still includes plenty of time for rest. Does the same hold for going from 5 days to 7 days or 8 hours to 16 hours? A reasonable person should agree at some point adding more time will make people less productive due to lack of breaks, rest, etc. Is it obvious where the line is? if so, where?
- kennywinker 1mo ago
  So you’re saying if I work at mcdonalds 60 hours a week i’ll make more than an investment banker working 40 hours a week? Awesome, i’m filling out a job application now!
- upboundspiral 1mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-day_workweek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-day_workweek "As of July 2022, more than 80 UK companies and organisations are recognised as having permanently implemented a four-day working week" "As 50% of workers claim improved productivity during the period, the Manufacturing Technology Centre (MTC) announced it will permanently provide a four-day workweek to its 820 employees"
apexalpha 1mo ago
Imagine a factory line where each worker makes 10 items per hour. In, say, China a worker doing 996 will make 720 items. Te average working hours in the Netherlands are 36 hours or so per week. Making 360 items. As long as there is free trade the Chinese factory will simply outproduce the Dutch one since they utilise their capex better. Obviously European workers can't be reasonably asked to compete in an open market when labour laws, salary, health inspection etc... in China are at a 1920 Dutch level.

thcipriani 1mo ago

The comic satirizes the 2026 US tariff rationale, vs. worker protection tariffs. But I do often think about Noam Chomsky's opposition to NAFTA[0] when talking heads explain why tariffs are bad. [0]: <https://chomsky.info/secrets03/ https://chomsky.info/secrets03/>

Kim_Bruning 1mo ago

Just as a note: if you work 6x12 shifts, you're actually working less efficiently, because you'll be regularly fatigued, make more mistakes, need more rework, etc etc. You might end up with the same net yield as if you'd done 3x6 hour shifts. (edit: And only if you don't fall asleep at the controls and destroy the factory first. 12 hour shifts are brutal. At least one place I know bans you the next day if you exceed 11h, for your own protection if nothing else) (edit2: This was documented in the 1st world war when munitions factories that tried to ramp up by increasing shift durations past a certain point ended up hardly improving productivity, but did increase accident and sickness rates to the point that it was starting to hurt the war effort. )

edgyquant 1mo ago

Unfortunately in our hyper partisan, sound bite, climate you can’t discuss the trade offs of tax policies anymore you either support the party line or you’re the enemy.

apexalpha 1mo ago
I am European... Tariffs are completely normal here we protect our workers all the time. It seems I've 'stung the wasps nest' on HN by not denouncing them outright it seems.
- MattCruikshank 1mo ago
  How many 100% tariffs do you have on every good from an entire country? A scalpel is one thing. Dynamite is something else.
  - apexalpha 1mo ago
    I was not aware this comic was a reation to new developments for US-CAN. I thought it was just a generic take on tarrifs and responded accordingly. I agree the current US strategy behind tariffs is pretty retarded. Good example of fools trying to use a powerful tool.
    - MattCruikshank 1mo ago
      Yeah, I think you've got it. Agreeing with you and continuing my thought: If I had to guess at the comic author's intention... It's commentary that the logic is flawed. If this is why you're doing tariffs, you're not using them correctly. Not that tariffs should never be used.
  - edgyquant 1mo ago
    Context is important. 100% tariffs on Canada is stupid, 100% tariffs on China because we don’t want any industry dependent on a major military adversary is something worth discussing even if the answer is to not do that in the end

cdrnsf 1mo ago

My dad worked 12 hour shifts for decades (4 days on, 4 days off). Anyone working 72 hours a week isn't going to last long.

throw0101d 1mo ago

> This is a pretty reductive take. Yes, because it's a one-panel comic.

thisisit 1mo ago

> Protecting workers from that kind of competition seems fair. Tariffs aren't bad in itself. They are just a tool. At the cost of consumers paying for goods/services? Your take is as reductive as the take in the comics. People in a nation working 5 days a week for 8 hours are getting paid less and less over time. Heck lot of people now need double shifts to make ends meet totaling up to 12 hr or even more. They can only afford a Christmas light from the nation mass producing it by working 6 days a week, 12 hr shift. And lets not pretend this was only about protecting workers. There were multiple agendas: 1. Bring back jobs 2. Remove trade barriers between countries 3. Make US rich by collecting huge amount of tariffs All three can't be true at the same time. If jobs are brought back then you aren't going to collect huge amount of tariffs because nothing is being produced outside. If trade barriers are removed then that comes at a cost of slashing tariffs so you can't really collect huge amount of tariffs. The foolish reasoning highlighted in the comics is the reason there is so much trade war.

Hammershaft 1mo ago

Have you ever heard of comparative advantage?

Lamires 1mo ago

> If a nation works 6 days a week, 12 hours a shift then obviously they will outcompete any nation where people work 5 days a week for 8 hours. If a nation has a decades-long technological lead over another nation, then obviously it will outcompete it in many industries and enjoy major advantages in trade. But somehow that advantage doesn't seem to count in your argument. Cherry-picking one side's advantages is not an analysis of international trade; it's just bias.