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We have those stupid regulations in Finland about how the outside of our apartments buildings should look - meaning you cannot put the condenser visibly on the
by deanc 1mo ago
We have those stupid regulations in Finland about how the outside of our apartments buildings should look - meaning you cannot put the condenser visibly on the outside of the building. I've heard stories of residents being scalded for putting flowers on their balcony railings that face outwards as it ruins the "look". Given almost all apartment buildings are built consistently between every floor they could ensure consistent placement of condensers across all floors and it wouldn't even look that bad.
What makes the situation much worse here is we have insanely good insulation on the buildings. They trap heat for the cold winters, but the walls just maintain all the heat during the summers. A new approach is needed to make it livable here.
In my own apartment I am not able to create a cross-breeze through strategic window opening to try and bring in cooler air from outside, so I've resorted to opening a window on one side of the apartment and using a Vornado fan to push air out the window on another side of the apartment - creating a pressurized system.
- margor 1mo agoSeems like Poland and Finland might have something in common then. It's exactly the same here and exactly senseless.
- the_real_cher 1mo agoI could see this being a good policy for unsightly detrius or debris but they've taken it way too far.
- titzer 1mo agoIs it really so hard to put a small fence around it to hide the ugly?
- deanc 1mo agoOf course not, there are numerous ways to make things look nicer.
- margor 1mo agoSometimes it's not about the fence, it's about exerting power. Put people in charge of the decision that shouldn't be there, and you're in world of pain.
- kwarcode 1mo agoFlowers bad, planks good?
- eemil 1mo agoDoesn't matter what it looks like, problem is it changes the facade. For that you need to submit some paperwork and get it approved. You can actually install a heat pump in most apartment buildings, as long as it's on the balcony and not visible from the street (=below waist-level). Main reason you wouldn't, is condensate output which has to be piped indoors or into a heated drain during the winter. Or you just pipe it into your balcony's rainwater drain and accept that you can't use the heatpump below 0C.
- raincom 1mo agoFencing AC units is a very bad idea, as they just cause air flow problems. After all, air and refrigerant circuit exchange heat.
- titzer 1mo agoObviously, people thought about this, and there are lots of fence designs that admit plenty of airflow and lots of products ready-made for this already.
- raincom 1mo agoService technicians hate fences unless they are easy to remove during a service call. Honestly, esthetics is not as much concerning as the noise from compressor and condenser fan. I stayed in an AirBnb, where the outdoor unit next to the bed room, and I couldn't sleep.
- titzer 1mo agoOk, you're clearly trolling it this point. Fences can open.
- michelsedgh 1mo agowow such beautiful industrial cement buildings how can someone put flowers and destroy the beauty of cement?
- spankibalt 1mo ago> We have those stupid regulations in Finland about how the outside of our apartments buildings should look - meaning you cannot put the condenser visibly on the outside of the building. Same for Germany, at least in many places. And if your building gets reclassified as being under Denkmalschutz (cultural heritage management) you've won in the Lottery of Pain.
- deanc 1mo agoWasn't it the case in Germany it's only fixed installations? Meaning you could put the Midea split system there? This'd be a big no-no in Finland.
- fnordsensei 1mo agoWhile I hear you, I think AC is better centralized for the building, along with heat and water. Yes, there are numerous reasons why this is harder to do than just doing it ad-hoc per apartment, but if we’re to see it as infrastructure, it should receive the same level of consideration as other utilities.
- deanc 1mo agoAgreed, new builds should be mandatory, but this is not easy to retrofit to existing apartment buildings in a country where labour and parts are notoriously expensive and have to be split with the residents.
- stasomatic 1mo agoI can run a broken toilet tank all day long without extra fees, hundreds of gallons. Can turn all faucets on without penalties, nobody is counting and the utility doesn't care. The maintenance fees for water cover it, spread across all residents (although they are not low, like $1,800 on top of mortgage, subsidizing things I don't use, like card rooms, ping pong hall, etc.). Some families live 4-5 in a 2 bedroom, in my case it's just the two of us and the dog. Pretty insane, no logical solutions in sight. Moving isn't inexpensive.
- ryandrake 1mo agoThat seems unusual to me. I've never lived in a place where water was not metered and charged by the volume consumed. A necessity like water (and A/C) should be as you describe, but I've never seen it, at least not in the USA.
- stasomatic 1mo agoI live in a condo in Florida in a 3 building high-rise compound. There are no water meters per unit. Water is covered by maintenance fees. They are atrocious and rising, but water is "free". Retrofitting will increase maintenance fees, likely by a lot more than I would save paying for my own water usage. I had a similar situation involving electricity when living in Los Angeles, in the Valley. Electricity costs were averaged across all units, there were no individual meters per unit. My family of 3 humans in a 2 bedroom apartment consumed a lot less than a 10 human family in a 3 bedroom, and that was a thing. I subsidized their electricity usage. This involved things like pool heating, grass maintenance which I never cared about or used. This was at Bella Vista near Warner Ridge. https://www.equityapartments.com/los-angeles/woodland-hills/bella-vista-at-warner-ridge-apartments##features-tile https://www.equityapartments.com/los-angeles/woodland-hills/... In the US, utility companies don't bill you for actual usage, they have "predictions" on what you may use. IME. You can burn candles and eat canned food for a month and still get billed $300.
- anilakar 1mo ago> ensure consistent placement of condensers You can install one on the balcony below the railing level. The housing company is responsible for the exterior surfaces and thus also responsible for whatever happens to fall on bystanders when it will inevitably happen. AC installers are also notoriously bad at following placement guidelines.
- soco 1mo agoI've had one placed like this in the balcony of a XVth century palazzo turned museum plus hotel, straight in the historical heart of Verona. If they can do it, everybody can do it as well.
- matt-p 1mo agoYou say stupid, but I actually would find it sad to see beautiful buildings that are in many cases hundreds of years old defaced with loads of small condensers bolted on to the face. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have A/C but rather all flats use one system with a large roof condenser, or where that is not possible district cooling or ground source.
- deanc 1mo agoI'm not talking about historic buildings that are hundreds of years old. I live in Finland - we don't have many of these. Almost all apartments are built after the 60s outside the downtown and look like concrete boxes.
- soco 1mo agoYou'd be surprised (I certainly am) how fond can some people be of concrete box architecture - hint Le Corbusier.
- SuperSixFour 1mo agoThe amount of engineering that goes into a system like this makes it impossible to retrofit into an existing structure.
- koalalimpo 1mo agoI think you misunderstand what isolation does. It will also keep the heat out. Having window awnings to block sunlight from directly warming up the room will go a long way.
- soco 1mo agoNow here is exactly one place where the regulation can hit hard: awnings are maybe not allowed because the house wasn't designed with them. Possible to get the new design approved? For sure. Simple? Ha.
- unknownfuture 1mo agoYes and no. The problem is if you can't get the home cooled off, then heat that does build up can't escape. In western Canada until recently we got away with very good insulation coupled with opening windows at night as daytime-vs-nighttime temperatures could swing as much as 15C. But as both daytime and nighttime temperatures increase, or in more humid climates where the temperature doesn't drop enough, that's no longer effective. The net result is the home just gets hot and stays hot.
- crossroadsguy 1mo ago> I've heard stories of residents being scalded for putting flowers on their balcony In medieval times, not after, I hope.
- Markoff 1mo agoif you have balcony you could hide multisplit unit under railing if you don't want permanent installation there are not basically mobile split units like Midea Portasplit, it's basically same thing you would install on the wall, but mobile on the wheels (personally I have regular AC (Toshiba) and my multisplit unit is on the flat roof invisible from the street, this year neighbor floor below me installed his unit on the roof as well, we are the only 2 apartments in two units with 40 apartments in total with AC, so much for Prague AC statistics, though honestly even under the roof in 35C+ temperatures it was not that bad prior turning on the AC)