6 ms·

when you treat immigrants like they were not people with lifes, you are just one step away from treating poor people as they were not people and then too treat

by motbus3 2mo ago

when you treat immigrants like they were not people with lifes, you are just one step away from treating poor people as they were not people and then too treat all common people as they were not people. also it has been quite convenient explanation for adopting systems such as Flock and allowing all kinds of para-police actions which seems very similar to what happened in germany circla 1930-1934

locknitpicker 2mo ago
> when you treat immigrants like they were not people with lifes, you are just one step away from treating poor people as they were not people and then too treat all common people as they were not people. "The way that a society treats its prisoners is one of the sharpest reflections of its character." - Nelson Mandela http://www.mandela.gov.za/mandela_speeches/1998/980625_dcshr.htm http://www.mandela.gov.za/mandela_speeches/1998/980625_dcshr...
- motbus3 2mo ago
  I did not know this but true. I would point out that when you are talking about criminals there is still a layer of judgment from society given the crimes. When talking about legal immigrants and refugees there is even less space.
  - wood_spirit 2mo ago
    The US is an outliner on prison terms and sizes etc. Under the surface it is hard to tell if the public lead the prisons or if the big prison business shapes public opinion but from the outside it seems crazy. Different societies are at different places on the prison is for punishment to prison is for rehabilitation spectrum, and their reoffending rates reflect that.
  - locknitpicker 2mo ago
    > I would point out that when you are talking about criminals there is still a layer of judgment from society given the crimes. That's exactly what the citation is about: how a society opts to treat its most vulnerable also shows what that society is truly about. Often times we see USians criticize Nordic countries because they lack cruelty in their prison system. How is that not a demonstration of the cruelty imbued in US culture?
    - cindyllm 2mo ago
      [dead]
tclancy 2mo ago
> when you treat immigrants like they were not people with lifes Thus the rebranding of humans as “illegals”.
- redeeman 2mo ago
  oh please, everyone knows that its referring to their immigration status or legality of stay in country. you surely must realize that any rational person just shrugs off listening to what else you might say when you start with such ridiculous interpretations
  - tclancy 2mo ago
    I was not aware and thank you for letting me know. When did you meet a rational person?
- conductr 2mo ago
  That term has been in use for at least the half century I’ve been alive. It’s a common word almost every where in the US, shows up in daily conversations, but it’s been deemed not politically correct. That’s why you maybe never heard it in media or from a politician in the past. This presidency is all about breaking political correctness though and it’s on brand. This is why his devotees love him. Simple things like saying the words we were told we couldn’t say really resonates with some people. There’s unfortunately still a lot of deep seated racism in the US. Will take a thousand more years to really get rid of it. Political correctness is a way to force accelerated the process, it backfires when you push it too hard too fast. You’re trying to change culture faster than humans can be expected to change (pesky long lifespans and all). It doesn’t work well and cause a pressure cooker situation. Trump is the steam venting of years of political correctness and rapid progressive movement.
  - rayiner 2mo ago
    Trump is not about “racism.” He won more racial minorities in 2024 than any republican president in modern history. Trump is about Americanism versus third-worldism. Among immigrants themselves—half of whom voted for Trump in 2024–it’s about whether immigrants should Anglicize and dissolve into the American polity, or whether they should bring their home cultures with them and retain their separate ethnocultural identity. Fundamentally, it’s a disagreement over what makes countries the way they are. Does a Bangladeshi start thinking and acting like an American the minute they set foot within borders where the 1st, 2nd, etc., amendments apply? Or is culture deeper than the words on paper.
59percentmore 2mo ago
[flagged]
jacquesm 2mo ago
This is my touchstone for evaluating any society: how does it deal with people without power?
rayiner 2mo ago
You treat them like they are people without personal agency. Temporary worker programs are a deal offered on open terms: people can come to work, but they have to leave afterward. The laws are plastered with the word “temporary.” People take advantage of the deal knowing the terms and there is nothing wrong holding people to the deal.
- mattnewton 2mo ago
  This is not that, these are people seeking to immigrate to the United States legally getting jerked around instead of a process that approves or denies them on a set timeline.

by motbus3 2mo ago

locknitpicker 2mo ago

> when you treat immigrants like they were not people with lifes, you are just one step away from treating poor people as they were not people and then too treat all common people as they were not people. "The way that a society treats its prisoners is one of the sharpest reflections of its character." - Nelson Mandela http://www.mandela.gov.za/mandela_speeches/1998/980625_dcshr.htm http://www.mandela.gov.za/mandela_speeches/1998/980625_dcshr...

motbus3 2mo ago
I did not know this but true. I would point out that when you are talking about criminals there is still a layer of judgment from society given the crimes. When talking about legal immigrants and refugees there is even less space.
- wood_spirit 2mo ago
  The US is an outliner on prison terms and sizes etc. Under the surface it is hard to tell if the public lead the prisons or if the big prison business shapes public opinion but from the outside it seems crazy. Different societies are at different places on the prison is for punishment to prison is for rehabilitation spectrum, and their reoffending rates reflect that.
- locknitpicker 2mo ago
  > I would point out that when you are talking about criminals there is still a layer of judgment from society given the crimes. That's exactly what the citation is about: how a society opts to treat its most vulnerable also shows what that society is truly about. Often times we see USians criticize Nordic countries because they lack cruelty in their prison system. How is that not a demonstration of the cruelty imbued in US culture?
  - cindyllm 2mo ago
    [dead]

tclancy 2mo ago

> when you treat immigrants like they were not people with lifes Thus the rebranding of humans as “illegals”.

redeeman 2mo ago
oh please, everyone knows that its referring to their immigration status or legality of stay in country. you surely must realize that any rational person just shrugs off listening to what else you might say when you start with such ridiculous interpretations
- tclancy 2mo ago
  I was not aware and thank you for letting me know. When did you meet a rational person?
conductr 2mo ago
That term has been in use for at least the half century I’ve been alive. It’s a common word almost every where in the US, shows up in daily conversations, but it’s been deemed not politically correct. That’s why you maybe never heard it in media or from a politician in the past. This presidency is all about breaking political correctness though and it’s on brand. This is why his devotees love him. Simple things like saying the words we were told we couldn’t say really resonates with some people. There’s unfortunately still a lot of deep seated racism in the US. Will take a thousand more years to really get rid of it. Political correctness is a way to force accelerated the process, it backfires when you push it too hard too fast. You’re trying to change culture faster than humans can be expected to change (pesky long lifespans and all). It doesn’t work well and cause a pressure cooker situation. Trump is the steam venting of years of political correctness and rapid progressive movement.
- rayiner 2mo ago
  Trump is not about “racism.” He won more racial minorities in 2024 than any republican president in modern history. Trump is about Americanism versus third-worldism. Among immigrants themselves—half of whom voted for Trump in 2024–it’s about whether immigrants should Anglicize and dissolve into the American polity, or whether they should bring their home cultures with them and retain their separate ethnocultural identity. Fundamentally, it’s a disagreement over what makes countries the way they are. Does a Bangladeshi start thinking and acting like an American the minute they set foot within borders where the 1st, 2nd, etc., amendments apply? Or is culture deeper than the words on paper.

59percentmore 2mo ago

[flagged]

jacquesm 2mo ago

This is my touchstone for evaluating any society: how does it deal with people without power?

rayiner 2mo ago

You treat them like they are people without personal agency. Temporary worker programs are a deal offered on open terms: people can come to work, but they have to leave afterward. The laws are plastered with the word “temporary.” People take advantage of the deal knowing the terms and there is nothing wrong holding people to the deal.

mattnewton 2mo ago
This is not that, these are people seeking to immigrate to the United States legally getting jerked around instead of a process that approves or denies them on a set timeline.