4 ms·

> When photography was first becoming popular, it was mostly used as a form of artistic expression. No, it was mostly used for portraiture and things you could

> When photography was first becoming popular, it was mostly used as a form of artistic expression. No, it was mostly used for portraiture and things you could generalize as journalism. Photography as an accepted fine art is a pretty recent thing.

jacobolus 14y ago
The sentence you’re responding to is silly, but your comment is also completely off the mark. Photography was used, among other things, for demonstrating medical conditions, for mugshots (and compositing many photos to capture a “scientific” “type” of different sorts of criminals or members of particular social classes), for scientific imagery, for understanding movement (Muybridge & al.), for propaganda (well beyond “journalism”), for faddish semi-scams (like the famous “spirit” photographs), for documentation of people and places (with types of photos it would be quite a stretch to call either “journalism” or “portraiture”), for making reproductions of other types of art, and yes, for fine art in itself (there were huge debates about whether photography counted as “art” going right back to the beginning, with the pictorialists e.g. famously making their images out of focus or otherwise blurry, scratched, etc. so that it could be “art” instead of a purely mechanical process). Indeed, nearly all of the uses of photography date back to the 19th century, they just weren’t as widespread as today.
- jberryman 14y ago
  Most of what you've named are what I meant by "generalized as journalism", i.e. as objective documentation of one form or another. I was just trying to point out that art as self-expression wasn't and has never been photography's primary "use". Good point though.
  - 001sky 14y ago
    This is still prety far off base, historically. The most important contemporary art (as a genre) right now is photography. Its most popular movement, loosley called the 'New Topographics.' The 'origins' of 'topograpgic' photography, as a style, date well back into the 19th century, however. I think that says enough.
    - mturmon 14y ago
      "The most important contemporary art (as a genre) right now is photography." First, the truth status of this sweeping statement is hard to assess, but I think it's more wrong than right. If you had to complete your sentence "The most important...", I think you'd better put installation, or perhaps conceptual art, rather than photography. It would be better not to make such statements at all -- doing so combines two notoriously slippery concepts, "art" and "most important". (If we can't define art, and good luck doing it, then defining most important art is well out of reach.) Anyway, you and the comment above you are talking across each other. You're saying that photography is important to contemporary art. jberryman is saying that the most common use cases of photography are not art, and tend to be documentary, not aesthetic. Both of you can be right.
      - 001sky 14y ago
        Topographics stems from the 19th century as historical fact. The rest of your post is just full of bluster. [1] Both the market and art-history have already conceded as much. So, I'm not sure what you are looking at, or what price point you are at, or what your vested interests are. Its honestly irrelevant. It would be better not to make such statements at all... -- As you said. http://artblart.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/hyman-writing.jpg http://artblart.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/hyman-writing.jp... _____________________ [1] Citations for context, if you need them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_photographs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_photogra... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhein_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhein_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Topographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Topographics Non-topographic 19th Century art with 20th C influence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cameron_julia_jackson.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cameron_julia_jackson.jpg _________ Is "Photography is at the cutting edge of contemporary art"? http://www.amazon.com/Why-Photography-Matters-Never-Before/dp/0300136846 http://www.amazon.com/Why-Photography-Matters-Never-Before/d... _________ Does art exist? http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Objective_Eye.html?id=LISzaocIPQAC http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Objective_Eye.html?i... __________
        14y ago

jacobolus 14y ago

The sentence you’re responding to is silly, but your comment is also completely off the mark. Photography was used, among other things, for demonstrating medical conditions, for mugshots (and compositing many photos to capture a “scientific” “type” of different sorts of criminals or members of particular social classes), for scientific imagery, for understanding movement (Muybridge & al.), for propaganda (well beyond “journalism”), for faddish semi-scams (like the famous “spirit” photographs), for documentation of people and places (with types of photos it would be quite a stretch to call either “journalism” or “portraiture”), for making reproductions of other types of art, and yes, for fine art in itself (there were huge debates about whether photography counted as “art” going right back to the beginning, with the pictorialists e.g. famously making their images out of focus or otherwise blurry, scratched, etc. so that it could be “art” instead of a purely mechanical process). Indeed, nearly all of the uses of photography date back to the 19th century, they just weren’t as widespread as today.

jberryman 14y ago
Most of what you've named are what I meant by "generalized as journalism", i.e. as objective documentation of one form or another. I was just trying to point out that art as self-expression wasn't and has never been photography's primary "use". Good point though.
- 001sky 14y ago
  This is still prety far off base, historically. The most important contemporary art (as a genre) right now is photography. Its most popular movement, loosley called the 'New Topographics.' The 'origins' of 'topograpgic' photography, as a style, date well back into the 19th century, however. I think that says enough.
  - mturmon 14y ago
    "The most important contemporary art (as a genre) right now is photography." First, the truth status of this sweeping statement is hard to assess, but I think it's more wrong than right. If you had to complete your sentence "The most important...", I think you'd better put installation, or perhaps conceptual art, rather than photography. It would be better not to make such statements at all -- doing so combines two notoriously slippery concepts, "art" and "most important". (If we can't define art, and good luck doing it, then defining most important art is well out of reach.) Anyway, you and the comment above you are talking across each other. You're saying that photography is important to contemporary art. jberryman is saying that the most common use cases of photography are not art, and tend to be documentary, not aesthetic. Both of you can be right.
    - 001sky 14y ago
      Topographics stems from the 19th century as historical fact. The rest of your post is just full of bluster. [1] Both the market and art-history have already conceded as much. So, I'm not sure what you are looking at, or what price point you are at, or what your vested interests are. Its honestly irrelevant. It would be better not to make such statements at all... -- As you said. http://artblart.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/hyman-writing.jpg http://artblart.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/hyman-writing.jp... _____________________ [1] Citations for context, if you need them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_photographs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_photogra... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhein_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhein_II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Topographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Topographics Non-topographic 19th Century art with 20th C influence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cameron_julia_jackson.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cameron_julia_jackson.jpg _________ Is "Photography is at the cutting edge of contemporary art"? http://www.amazon.com/Why-Photography-Matters-Never-Before/dp/0300136846 http://www.amazon.com/Why-Photography-Matters-Never-Before/d... _________ Does art exist? http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Objective_Eye.html?id=LISzaocIPQAC http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Objective_Eye.html?i... __________
      - 14y ago