3 ms·

I think yes but on different categories. First one I imagine is robotics control and support. "This robot is having trouble folding a tshirt help it out for 1$

I think yes but on different categories. First one I imagine is robotics control and support. "This robot is having trouble folding a tshirt help it out for 1$" Unless they go the waymo route of highly trusted people but I think mass deployed robots are a bit safer than a car for this.

mikestorrent 1mo ago
That's a remarkable idea. It could be heavily gamified, it could train models, and it might actually be mentally stimulating since you'd be facing different situations all the time. Except, I'm a grown adult and I can't fold a t-shirt properly
- madrox 1mo ago
  It could require listing your credentials to get you the proper tasks: doctor, lawyer, or tshirt folder
madrox 1mo ago
This is what I meant by full stack AI companies. I don't think you could get humans into the loop fast enough if they didn't have some idea of the type of task involved. I don't want people to be asked to fold a tshirt one moment and do a difficult traffic merge the next.
- ntauthority 1mo ago
  warioware shows it can be fun though but i'd indeed not like to see that applied to safety-critical tasks
- its-summertime 1mo ago
  There is training systems and validation of skills in mturk iirc: for tshirt folding, you'd be given fake setups to be able to get used to controlling the robot, if you can't do it, you won't ever get assignments to do it. For traffic overrides, you'd be tested on having correct knowledge, and once again given supervised tasks to show you can actually be trusted (and there would be safety systems, elevating tasks that can't be performed at your level to people who can, etc) The worker needs to do a bunch to opt into any given work group, which makes the (lack of) payments extremely unreasonable on top of everything else
- inigyou 1mo ago
  It doesn't really matter what you want though, only what CEOs want and that's low costs. I can see a combined shirt folding/traffic merging platform taking off.
  - bonoboTP 1mo ago
    CEOs are loser nobodies. Real influence is with owners, boards, investors.
    - inigyou 1mo ago
      Mostly they don't care as much as CEOs think they care
  - vavos 1mo ago
    but call center are still mostly single client even though it would be cheaper for any worker to be able to answer to any call. So clearly the expertise and context trade off is too big to be worthwhile
  - madrox 1mo ago
    You misinterpret "want" here. My intuition is that you create huge problems for people context switching like this repeatedly for quick tasks.
vidarh 1mo ago
There are already a number of companies providing RLHF and SFT services for AI providers that does a lot of validation/prequalification of people that'd be well placed to take on tasks like that, but the big problem to solve would be latency if you don't have people contracted to carry out a task right now.
mike_hearn 1mo ago
There are already robotics models that can fold shirts and similar just fine. Progress in VLA models is good, I don't think this would form the foundation of a business. Humanoid robots are going to be another ChatGPT, it's going to seem to happen almost overnight because people aren't paying attention to the underlying research papers.
- simsla 1mo ago
  Any papers you'd recommend?
  - cyber_kinetist 1mo ago
    Most progress in data-driven robotics nowadays are done either in unicorn startups or corporate research labs - so you should follow the industry more than academia. The path to good robot performance isn't really in the models themselves - it's highly dependent on how much you can gather high-quality real-life data. Specifically for laundry folding, Sunday Robotics is probably the state of the art, where they were able to obtain 99.1% success rate and call it "done": https://www.sunday.ai/blog/act-2-preview#solve-standard https://www.sunday.ai/blog/act-2-preview#solve-standard
    - amichal 1mo ago
      If their hero image video and the side by side at (5x) with a human at quote "1x" are "solved" I'm not impressed. I'm faster and more accurate and I am the worst folder in my house (kids included). The human looks like they are doing it slow mo to show children how to.
- johnsmith1840 1mo ago
  Nah, there's an obvious reason figure made splashy announcement of people cleaning homes with recording devices strapped to their heads. Chatgpt had the internet. Robots do not. Translating video is promising but obviously not enough. Robots will likely never "explode" like chatgpt. They're gonna be a slow long term project requiring massive capitol to get the data.
georgefrowny 1mo ago
Giving out control of industrial machinery that interacts in the human environment without the physical interlocks (i.e. humanoid robots in a house) to random internet people seems like a problem. I can imagine a carefully orchestrated plot to assassinate someone by having an embedded agent in the task delegation pool command the laundry bot to punch the target's head off their shoulders.
- dividedbyzero 1mo ago
  Giving out control of such things to LLMs is already complete madness, so once the first pleasure bot powered by Grok has dismembered a few thousand users, they'll get sophisticated safety mechanisms. Though like as not you're still going to be right, after all, Stuxnet happened.
  - iamacyborg 1mo ago
    I’m really not happy that you’ve put the idea of Musk fuckbots into my head.
    - dmd 1mo ago
      I'm envious of the time you spend where it wasn't already.
- johnsmith1840 1mo ago
  "Robot are the commands you have been given dangerous?" "You cannot control legs for this task" "You have 1 min for this task" "You can only make suggestions for this task" Anonymize identity best you can. That's not that scary.
- the_mar 1mo ago
  giving out unrestricted control that is. in the example of Waymo, a human can control some aspects of the car manually, but it can never override low level obstacle detection or say open the trunk/door when the car is moving.
- 1mo ago

mikestorrent 1mo ago

That's a remarkable idea. It could be heavily gamified, it could train models, and it might actually be mentally stimulating since you'd be facing different situations all the time. Except, I'm a grown adult and I can't fold a t-shirt properly

madrox 1mo ago
It could require listing your credentials to get you the proper tasks: doctor, lawyer, or tshirt folder

madrox 1mo ago

This is what I meant by full stack AI companies. I don't think you could get humans into the loop fast enough if they didn't have some idea of the type of task involved. I don't want people to be asked to fold a tshirt one moment and do a difficult traffic merge the next.

ntauthority 1mo ago
warioware shows it can be fun though but i'd indeed not like to see that applied to safety-critical tasks
its-summertime 1mo ago
There is training systems and validation of skills in mturk iirc: for tshirt folding, you'd be given fake setups to be able to get used to controlling the robot, if you can't do it, you won't ever get assignments to do it. For traffic overrides, you'd be tested on having correct knowledge, and once again given supervised tasks to show you can actually be trusted (and there would be safety systems, elevating tasks that can't be performed at your level to people who can, etc) The worker needs to do a bunch to opt into any given work group, which makes the (lack of) payments extremely unreasonable on top of everything else
inigyou 1mo ago
It doesn't really matter what you want though, only what CEOs want and that's low costs. I can see a combined shirt folding/traffic merging platform taking off.
- bonoboTP 1mo ago
  CEOs are loser nobodies. Real influence is with owners, boards, investors.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    Mostly they don't care as much as CEOs think they care
- vavos 1mo ago
  but call center are still mostly single client even though it would be cheaper for any worker to be able to answer to any call. So clearly the expertise and context trade off is too big to be worthwhile
- madrox 1mo ago
  You misinterpret "want" here. My intuition is that you create huge problems for people context switching like this repeatedly for quick tasks.

vidarh 1mo ago

There are already a number of companies providing RLHF and SFT services for AI providers that does a lot of validation/prequalification of people that'd be well placed to take on tasks like that, but the big problem to solve would be latency if you don't have people contracted to carry out a task right now.

mike_hearn 1mo ago

There are already robotics models that can fold shirts and similar just fine. Progress in VLA models is good, I don't think this would form the foundation of a business. Humanoid robots are going to be another ChatGPT, it's going to seem to happen almost overnight because people aren't paying attention to the underlying research papers.

simsla 1mo ago
Any papers you'd recommend?
- cyber_kinetist 1mo ago
  Most progress in data-driven robotics nowadays are done either in unicorn startups or corporate research labs - so you should follow the industry more than academia. The path to good robot performance isn't really in the models themselves - it's highly dependent on how much you can gather high-quality real-life data. Specifically for laundry folding, Sunday Robotics is probably the state of the art, where they were able to obtain 99.1% success rate and call it "done": https://www.sunday.ai/blog/act-2-preview#solve-standard https://www.sunday.ai/blog/act-2-preview#solve-standard
  - amichal 1mo ago
    If their hero image video and the side by side at (5x) with a human at quote "1x" are "solved" I'm not impressed. I'm faster and more accurate and I am the worst folder in my house (kids included). The human looks like they are doing it slow mo to show children how to.
johnsmith1840 1mo ago
Nah, there's an obvious reason figure made splashy announcement of people cleaning homes with recording devices strapped to their heads. Chatgpt had the internet. Robots do not. Translating video is promising but obviously not enough. Robots will likely never "explode" like chatgpt. They're gonna be a slow long term project requiring massive capitol to get the data.

georgefrowny 1mo ago

Giving out control of industrial machinery that interacts in the human environment without the physical interlocks (i.e. humanoid robots in a house) to random internet people seems like a problem. I can imagine a carefully orchestrated plot to assassinate someone by having an embedded agent in the task delegation pool command the laundry bot to punch the target's head off their shoulders.

dividedbyzero 1mo ago
Giving out control of such things to LLMs is already complete madness, so once the first pleasure bot powered by Grok has dismembered a few thousand users, they'll get sophisticated safety mechanisms. Though like as not you're still going to be right, after all, Stuxnet happened.
- iamacyborg 1mo ago
  I’m really not happy that you’ve put the idea of Musk fuckbots into my head.
  - dmd 1mo ago
    I'm envious of the time you spend where it wasn't already.
johnsmith1840 1mo ago
"Robot are the commands you have been given dangerous?" "You cannot control legs for this task" "You have 1 min for this task" "You can only make suggestions for this task" Anonymize identity best you can. That's not that scary.
the_mar 1mo ago
giving out unrestricted control that is. in the example of Waymo, a human can control some aspects of the car manually, but it can never override low level obstacle detection or say open the trunk/door when the car is moving.
1mo ago