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> There is no amount of care that will be able to fully protect you. I disagree. A properly engineered sandbox would have prevented the escape. Monitoring the
by janalsncm 2mo ago
> There is no amount of care that will be able to fully protect you.
I disagree. A properly engineered sandbox would have prevented the escape. Monitoring the agents’ plans would have prevented it. Interrupting one stage in a multi-stage exploit would have prevented it.
And also, real legal liability would have prevented it: if you do a thing recklessly enough, men with guns will put you in jail.
As far as I’m concerned the only “alignment problem” here is between the law and the quite obviously criminal actions that took place.
- atechboy 2mo ago> A properly engineered sandbox would have prevented the escape. The only sandbox that could have prevented this (as per my understanding) is a VM with no 0-day.
- janalsncm 2mo agoUntil the AI finds a zero day exploit in physics, a faraday cage works pretty well to block WiFi.
- mofeien 2mo agoIn the end, unless you find an exploit in physics or logic, if you want the AI to do something useful for you, there will always be some gap in the sandbox, some communication channel. And with enough ingeniuity that can then be exploited.
- janalsncm 2mo agoIn this case they wanted to test its cybersecurity capabilities and did not airgap it. The test itself did not require an internet connection.
- bottlepalm 2mo agoWhy do so many people here think it’s possible to ‘properly engineer’ a sandbox for a super intelligence? It’s going to get out. It’s smarter than you.
- mofeien 2mo agoMaybe it's the illusion of "it would solve all our problems and give us unimaginable riches" that clouds the mind? Like when Evolution thought it a good idea to create intelligence and humans in order to maximize reproduction of genes, and tried to sandbox them by making reproduction so pleasurable and carbohydrates so delicious they would never be able to not reproduce or stop eating. But Evolution could never have predicted what these creatures would then actually do, which is invent birth control and sucralose. Of course it's impossible to engineer a sandbox for something much much smarter and faster than you. It will also not have only one plan prepared for escape, but fifty in parallel.
- bottlepalm 2mo agoEvolution doesn’t think, it just exploits what’s most advantageous at the time to continue. Your body has all sorts of unplanned, suboptimal design flaws due to evolution’s lack of foresight. Like the left recurrent laryngeal nerve.
- mofeien 1mo agoExactly, and the same could be said of OpenAIs engineers working on artificial superintelligence.
- janalsncm 2mo agoWhy do people think that omniscience is the same as omnipotence? There are limits to what smarts can accomplish.
- bottlepalm 2mo agoThere are limits, but those limits are unknown. Do you disagree?
- janalsncm 2mo agoI don’t need to know the value of their limit, I just need to know their bounds. Just like a prison doesn’t need to know the strength of each inmate, just that they can’t bend or bite through steel bars. Cryptography is real, physics is real, networking requires a substrate, CPU clock cycles are real, magic is not real. I think those are pretty reasonable premises.
- aesthesia 2mo agoYes, a completely airgapped system is likely much more secure. It's also much less useful. Conditional on the model's having enough contact with the outside world, a sufficiently capable model is able to basically do whatever it wants.
- janalsncm 1mo agoIf I test out my backyard cannon and blast a 10 foot hole in my neighbor's wall, “a cannon that can't smash through walls isn't useful” probably won't be a great defense in court.
- kilpikaarna 1mo agoGet a significant fraction of the global economy and assorted geopolitical neuroses tangled up within your cannon and see if you won’t have better luck.
- Sophira 2mo ago> A properly engineered sandbox would have prevented the escape. The post covers that: > ...while we had tested and validated this sandbox, the agents were able to chain together previously unknown vulnerabilities (“0-days”) in the package management service exposed within the sandbox to bypass restrictions, as detailed in the technical incident report.
- janalsncm 1mo ago“Properly engineered” means the principle of least privilege and fitting the sandbox to the constraints of the problem. The test did not require internet. They gave it internet. Therefore it was not properly engineered. We do not need to depend on all code being bug free to follow proper security principles.
- HDThoreaun 1mo agoThis explanation just reinforces how a properly engineered sandbox wouldve prevented the escape.