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Yes, I am pitting locals against immigrants and I am calling them a problem, which they are. Immigration is absolutely disastrous for the average citizen who ha

by tsss 1mo ago

Yes, I am pitting locals against immigrants and I am calling them a problem, which they are. Immigration is absolutely disastrous for the average citizen who has to compete for housing and jobs. Economic growth is pointless if it's only achieved by population growth. It is the wealth per person that counts, which will surely decrease when you import millions of people with few employable skills and their non-working families. Demography is only a problem because our social systems are completely unsustainable pyramid schemes reliant on endless population growth. Every day that you try to delay its inevitable collapse with immigration will only make the problem worse down the line.

noplacelikehome 1mo ago
Why do you think organisations go to the trouble of sponsoring visas? Papering over the lack of a suitably equipped workforce because of deficiencies in the education system will similarly not lead to growth. Blaming immigrants is lazy.
- tsss 1mo ago
  > Why do you think organisations go to the trouble of sponsoring visas? Because they don't have to pay the externalities. > Blaming immigrants is lazy. I am blaming the government and naive voters who let them take advantage of us. Every person pursues their own happiness. That's only natural.
  - teiferer 1mo ago
    Without immigrants your happiness would deterioate pretty quickly, I guarantee you that.
teiferer 1mo ago
> import millions of people with few employable skills That's denying reality to a level that's not even funny. For an above-average group like HN folks I'd even assume a bad faith perspective. The average immigrant is the prime person to boost the economy. They are already born and have gone through childhood, the most expensive time. The society they are immigrating to pays none of that. In contrast, they tend to be young and hungry for work. Exactly what your economy needs. Either they can work right away, mind you often jobs that locals don't want (low level construction, cleaning, elderly care). Or you give them a few years of training and they work harder than the average local. They are on average more law abiding and know that they must succeed otherwise they will be outcasts. No chilling on moms sofa. Of course there are outliers. But for a fair argument you need to consider the lazy/criminal/... locals too. And the highly educated immigrants that are making the tech sector work which is currently essentially running the economy. Remove all immigrants from the tech sector and the whole western economy would collapse. Oh and the health care sector without its immigrants. Or farming with its immigrants. If you think they are taking the locals' jobs in these sectors then you are delusional since that's not the reality you and I are living in.

by tsss 1mo ago

noplacelikehome 1mo ago

Why do you think organisations go to the trouble of sponsoring visas? Papering over the lack of a suitably equipped workforce because of deficiencies in the education system will similarly not lead to growth. Blaming immigrants is lazy.

tsss 1mo ago
> Why do you think organisations go to the trouble of sponsoring visas? Because they don't have to pay the externalities. > Blaming immigrants is lazy. I am blaming the government and naive voters who let them take advantage of us. Every person pursues their own happiness. That's only natural.
- teiferer 1mo ago
  Without immigrants your happiness would deterioate pretty quickly, I guarantee you that.

teiferer 1mo ago

> import millions of people with few employable skills That's denying reality to a level that's not even funny. For an above-average group like HN folks I'd even assume a bad faith perspective. The average immigrant is the prime person to boost the economy. They are already born and have gone through childhood, the most expensive time. The society they are immigrating to pays none of that. In contrast, they tend to be young and hungry for work. Exactly what your economy needs. Either they can work right away, mind you often jobs that locals don't want (low level construction, cleaning, elderly care). Or you give them a few years of training and they work harder than the average local. They are on average more law abiding and know that they must succeed otherwise they will be outcasts. No chilling on moms sofa. Of course there are outliers. But for a fair argument you need to consider the lazy/criminal/... locals too. And the highly educated immigrants that are making the tech sector work which is currently essentially running the economy. Remove all immigrants from the tech sector and the whole western economy would collapse. Oh and the health care sector without its immigrants. Or farming with its immigrants. If you think they are taking the locals' jobs in these sectors then you are delusional since that's not the reality you and I are living in.