2 ms·

They can’t vote in most elections (except a few local elections in some places) and aren’t guaranteed entry at the border. They also can’t work a litany of jobs

They can’t vote in most elections (except a few local elections in some places) and aren’t guaranteed entry at the border. They also can’t work a litany of jobs requiring citizenship. They get a plenty bad enough shake. Let’s grant them the absolute basics of humane treatment and a fair shake at getting citizenship, sheesh. Other countries get by just fine not having such a huge delta between haves and have nots on citizenship, and their social cohesion is better for it.

unselect5917 1mo ago
I have a better idea. Let them make their countries worth living in. If they don't like it in America they can leave. Because unlike Americans, we don't have another home country to retreat to. Most countries have MUCH higher standards for immigration and their citizens much better off for it.
- mcmcmc 1mo ago
  > Most countries have MUCH higher standards for immigration and their citizens much better off for it. I think your math is off. The US is in the top 10 for GDP per capita, 99% literacy rate when the global average is 87%, the poverty rate is below average, the list goes on. Most countries in the world aren’t even considered developed nations. Immigration has been America’s core growth engine for two and a half centuries. There may be problems but you are deluding yourself if you think the whole economy hasn’t benefited from immigration. Even when that immigration was through chattel slavery.
  - profdevloper 1mo ago
    I'm relieved that the magic soil in the United States can improve these peoples' lives.
    - preg_match 1mo ago
      It’s a symbiotic relationship. The reason the US is so prosperous is due to immigration, mostly during the 20th century. The US cannot run off of just the existing citizens. Well, it can, for a while, but not indefinitely.
      - throwaway85825 1mo ago
        Can't? Do citizens expire? Are you unaware of the concept of children?
        preg_match 1mo ago
        I am aware of the concept of children, thank you. Not sure why we have to argue like we have a stick up our asses, but here we are. As you're well aware, the US is just barely meeting replacement birth rate. Most developed countries are under it. And the big picture: the US is all about growth. Economic growth, cultural growth. If you want more of that, you need immigrants. Sorry, that's how the US has always worked. If you don't agree with it, then I'm not sure the US is the country for you. There are plenty of developed, homogeneous countries. Diversity is what makes the US the US. Please, feel free to seek a country that better aligns with your beliefs.
        unselect5917 1mo ago
        >As you're well aware, the US is just barely meeting replacement birth rate. Oh no, they'll have to raise wages due to lack of labor. How terrible for the working class (everyone).
        throwaway85825 1mo ago
        Without immigration lowering wages more citizens would be able to afford having children. > Diversity is what makes the US the US. Is this meant as a joke? I can't tell, but it is completely ahistorical. The foundera wrote about their demographic intention extensively.
        1mo ago
9x39 1mo ago
A litany of jobs? Do you mean a minority of jobs - civil service, some clearance jobs, holding some offices? The Immigration and Nationality Act makes citizenship discrimination illegal. >Other countries get by just fine Which ones are your model for the US?
- HaZeust 1mo ago
  Oh, spare me. What an unserious statement. The entire point of an I-9 is to discriminate on citizenship, which is the document that HR pesters you on for your first few days at any new job anyway.
carlosjobim 1mo ago
> They get a plenty bad enough shake. Then why are they coming if it's so bad? > Other countries get by just fine not having such a huge delta between haves and have nots on citizenship, and their social cohesion is better for it. Outside of the USA and a few other countries, there is no social cohesion at all shared between natives and immigrants/foreigners, just different levels of animosity. Even between different native ethnicities and groups.

unselect5917 1mo ago

I have a better idea. Let them make their countries worth living in. If they don't like it in America they can leave. Because unlike Americans, we don't have another home country to retreat to. Most countries have MUCH higher standards for immigration and their citizens much better off for it.

mcmcmc 1mo ago
> Most countries have MUCH higher standards for immigration and their citizens much better off for it. I think your math is off. The US is in the top 10 for GDP per capita, 99% literacy rate when the global average is 87%, the poverty rate is below average, the list goes on. Most countries in the world aren’t even considered developed nations. Immigration has been America’s core growth engine for two and a half centuries. There may be problems but you are deluding yourself if you think the whole economy hasn’t benefited from immigration. Even when that immigration was through chattel slavery.
- profdevloper 1mo ago
  I'm relieved that the magic soil in the United States can improve these peoples' lives.
  - preg_match 1mo ago
    It’s a symbiotic relationship. The reason the US is so prosperous is due to immigration, mostly during the 20th century. The US cannot run off of just the existing citizens. Well, it can, for a while, but not indefinitely.
    - throwaway85825 1mo ago
      Can't? Do citizens expire? Are you unaware of the concept of children?
      - preg_match 1mo ago
        I am aware of the concept of children, thank you. Not sure why we have to argue like we have a stick up our asses, but here we are. As you're well aware, the US is just barely meeting replacement birth rate. Most developed countries are under it. And the big picture: the US is all about growth. Economic growth, cultural growth. If you want more of that, you need immigrants. Sorry, that's how the US has always worked. If you don't agree with it, then I'm not sure the US is the country for you. There are plenty of developed, homogeneous countries. Diversity is what makes the US the US. Please, feel free to seek a country that better aligns with your beliefs.
        unselect5917 1mo ago
        >As you're well aware, the US is just barely meeting replacement birth rate. Oh no, they'll have to raise wages due to lack of labor. How terrible for the working class (everyone).
        throwaway85825 1mo ago
        Without immigration lowering wages more citizens would be able to afford having children. > Diversity is what makes the US the US. Is this meant as a joke? I can't tell, but it is completely ahistorical. The foundera wrote about their demographic intention extensively.
        1mo ago

9x39 1mo ago

A litany of jobs? Do you mean a minority of jobs - civil service, some clearance jobs, holding some offices? The Immigration and Nationality Act makes citizenship discrimination illegal. >Other countries get by just fine Which ones are your model for the US?

HaZeust 1mo ago
Oh, spare me. What an unserious statement. The entire point of an I-9 is to discriminate on citizenship, which is the document that HR pesters you on for your first few days at any new job anyway.

carlosjobim 1mo ago

> They get a plenty bad enough shake. Then why are they coming if it's so bad? > Other countries get by just fine not having such a huge delta between haves and have nots on citizenship, and their social cohesion is better for it. Outside of the USA and a few other countries, there is no social cohesion at all shared between natives and immigrants/foreigners, just different levels of animosity. Even between different native ethnicities and groups.