5 ms·

Musk is aggressively optimistic on what can be achieved and by when, but rational on product decisions. Musk stating that read-only scroll should be allowed se

by nomilk 1mo ago

Musk is aggressively optimistic on what can be achieved and by when, but rational on product decisions. Musk stating that read-only scroll should be allowed seems very sensible (I think we all agree on that). But he (or someone he delegated to) clearly changed their mind. Intrigued to know why. Occam's razor would probably suggest that allowing scrapers to host twitter posts elsewhere costs them ad revenue, so they make it difficult.

assagr 1mo ago
He thinks Twitter data is valuable for AI training. He also blocks archive.org. Grok 4.0, before it deteriorated, had a phase when it was good at writing tweets. The feature was used by Musk sycophants but it becomes boring soon. Since Grok is closed now too and Cursor is pivoting to octocnt (GitHub clone), nobody knows where things are heading.
- numpad0 1mo ago
  I think buying Twitter for data was a blunder big as expecting self driving to be solved by 2015 or whenever it originally was. It is only clear with hindsight, but now everyone knows that tweets are literally detrimental for LLM style AI for whatever reason. Personally I think it's because tweets are responses without CoT or prompts, or could be also because all its meat is in the shape incompatible with en-US culture, even when it's in English, though all that matters is it's actively useless.
  - nomilk 1mo ago
    Maybe for training, but how about look up? I often use claude voice and grok voice (both on iOS) and reasonably frequently claude simply cannot find any info about a breaking topic, whereas grok always can.
    - numpad0 1mo ago
      I wonder if "no one says no" culture is practically the same thing as instructing LLMs to always hallucinate. You know, LLM hallucination is a phenomenon where the AI would generate syntactically bulletproof chunks of text that are not grounded in reality. Lots of efforts by frontier LLM labs had been made in past few years to solve this by enabling AIs to refute premises in the prompt. Ordinary people still need to be instructed to google stuffs. They don't go to a niche de facto non-American social media to be disappointed by its notoriously bad search to then conclude its notoriously dumb AI can be abused as a makeshift search tool. People are simply unable. Twitter has been doing so much things backwards lately. That's reminiscent of how hallucination hurts whatever you do with AIs.
      - aboardRat4 1mo ago
        Hallucination is not something specific to LLM by any means. Remember when you were a kid, your teacher probably told you "At an exam, leave no question unanswered, even if you don't know what to write. Nobody is penalised for wrong answers, but even total gibberish might sometimes add a half-point to your score".
        angoragoats 1mo ago
        Yes, but LLMs are hallucination machines by design. What I mean by this is that everything the LLM generates is a hallucination, untethered from truth or reality, since the data is generated purely based on statistics around what word is most likely to come next. This type of algorithm can never model "truth" or "fact." To the extent that an LLM generates something factual or realistic, it's doing so either accidentally, or because of the various band-aids that the grandparent post describes which will never fully solve the problem.
        aboardRat4 1mo ago
        Yeah, but humans are just as hallucinatory when speaking about pretty much anything other than their flat or kids. 99% of people learn by memorising facts, not by testing reality.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    He didn't buy twitter for data, he bought it to shut down criticism of himself and it worked
    - pessimizer 1mo ago
      He bought twitter because he was forced to. He got it at twice any valuation (based on fake usage stats) and at least 4x what it was worth. Criticism of him was not "shut down" either off or on twitter. https://techcrunch.com/2023/04/12/elon-musk-admits-he-only-bought-twitter-because-he-thought-hed-be-forced-to/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/04/12/elon-musk-admits-he-only-b...
      - inigyou 1mo ago
        Why did he ban the maker of this twitter unblocker thing and the maker of elonjet?
      - angoragoats 1mo ago
        You are both correct. He originally wanted to buy it because his feelings were hurt by lots of Twitter users (like the Elon Jet guy), and I can only speculate that he thought it’d fill the emotional void in his soul to own it and do what he wanted with it. Later, when he realized that this was a stupid idea and that his amazing business acumen resulted in him drastically overpaying, he tried to back out of the sale by giving the excuse that the number of bots/spam posts/etc were more than he thought. According to the agreement that he had signed, this was not a valid reason to back out of the deal. His lawyers advised him that he’d probably lose in court, hence he was “forced to” buy the site as your article states.
    - numpad0 1mo ago
      Now he's a nobody though. Wasn't the case previously.
deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
angoragoats 1mo ago
> Musk is aggressively optimistic on what can be achieved and by when That’s putting it quite charitably, IMO. > but rational on product decisions Hard disagree. You only need to look to his entire tenure at DOGE for literally hundreds (thousands?) of counterexamples. Or, if you don’t count that work as “product decisions,” there are other highly questionable product decisions that he is responsible for: the rear doors on the Model X; the lack of instruments/gauges of any kind in front of the driver on the Model 3 and Y; the lack of proper safety sensors/protection for the hood of the Cybertruck, leading to mangled fingers; that stupid yoke steering wheel; and the entirety of Neuralink (just to name a handful).
- 100percentjake 1mo ago
  I am certifiably not a fan of Musk but the yoke in the cybertruck when combined with the drive by wire steering is an absolute engineering masterpiece and a masterclass in systems calibration. The yoke itself has a relatively narrow range of motion of .94 turns lock-to-lock and at slow parking lot speeds that means you can do a 3 point turn, park, parallel park, navigate around, without making large movements of the steering input and you never have to (because you physically cannot) go hand-over-hand. Then at highway speeds the steering ratio is vastly different and the vehicle feels solid as a rock. It's absolutely effortless. Now, on the flipside, the yoke also exists in the Tesla Model S Plaid, which has a traditional manual rack. In here it is the worst god-damned thing to ever curse a vehicle. The width is roughly the diameter of a school bus steering wheel and going hand over hand with it is annoying at best and the whole experience feels like utter garbage.
  - angoragoats 1mo ago
    > Now, on the flipside, the yoke also exists in the Tesla Model S Plaid, which has a traditional manual rack. In here it is the worst god-damned thing to ever curse a vehicle. Yes, as I said, bad product decisions.

by nomilk 1mo ago

assagr 1mo ago

He thinks Twitter data is valuable for AI training. He also blocks archive.org. Grok 4.0, before it deteriorated, had a phase when it was good at writing tweets. The feature was used by Musk sycophants but it becomes boring soon. Since Grok is closed now too and Cursor is pivoting to octocnt (GitHub clone), nobody knows where things are heading.

numpad0 1mo ago
I think buying Twitter for data was a blunder big as expecting self driving to be solved by 2015 or whenever it originally was. It is only clear with hindsight, but now everyone knows that tweets are literally detrimental for LLM style AI for whatever reason. Personally I think it's because tweets are responses without CoT or prompts, or could be also because all its meat is in the shape incompatible with en-US culture, even when it's in English, though all that matters is it's actively useless.
- nomilk 1mo ago
  Maybe for training, but how about look up? I often use claude voice and grok voice (both on iOS) and reasonably frequently claude simply cannot find any info about a breaking topic, whereas grok always can.
  - numpad0 1mo ago
    I wonder if "no one says no" culture is practically the same thing as instructing LLMs to always hallucinate. You know, LLM hallucination is a phenomenon where the AI would generate syntactically bulletproof chunks of text that are not grounded in reality. Lots of efforts by frontier LLM labs had been made in past few years to solve this by enabling AIs to refute premises in the prompt. Ordinary people still need to be instructed to google stuffs. They don't go to a niche de facto non-American social media to be disappointed by its notoriously bad search to then conclude its notoriously dumb AI can be abused as a makeshift search tool. People are simply unable. Twitter has been doing so much things backwards lately. That's reminiscent of how hallucination hurts whatever you do with AIs.
    - aboardRat4 1mo ago
      Hallucination is not something specific to LLM by any means. Remember when you were a kid, your teacher probably told you "At an exam, leave no question unanswered, even if you don't know what to write. Nobody is penalised for wrong answers, but even total gibberish might sometimes add a half-point to your score".
      - angoragoats 1mo ago
        Yes, but LLMs are hallucination machines by design. What I mean by this is that everything the LLM generates is a hallucination, untethered from truth or reality, since the data is generated purely based on statistics around what word is most likely to come next. This type of algorithm can never model "truth" or "fact." To the extent that an LLM generates something factual or realistic, it's doing so either accidentally, or because of the various band-aids that the grandparent post describes which will never fully solve the problem.
        aboardRat4 1mo ago
        Yeah, but humans are just as hallucinatory when speaking about pretty much anything other than their flat or kids. 99% of people learn by memorising facts, not by testing reality.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  He didn't buy twitter for data, he bought it to shut down criticism of himself and it worked
  - pessimizer 1mo ago
    He bought twitter because he was forced to. He got it at twice any valuation (based on fake usage stats) and at least 4x what it was worth. Criticism of him was not "shut down" either off or on twitter. https://techcrunch.com/2023/04/12/elon-musk-admits-he-only-bought-twitter-because-he-thought-hed-be-forced-to/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/04/12/elon-musk-admits-he-only-b...
    - inigyou 1mo ago
      Why did he ban the maker of this twitter unblocker thing and the maker of elonjet?
    - angoragoats 1mo ago
      You are both correct. He originally wanted to buy it because his feelings were hurt by lots of Twitter users (like the Elon Jet guy), and I can only speculate that he thought it’d fill the emotional void in his soul to own it and do what he wanted with it. Later, when he realized that this was a stupid idea and that his amazing business acumen resulted in him drastically overpaying, he tried to back out of the sale by giving the excuse that the number of bots/spam posts/etc were more than he thought. According to the agreement that he had signed, this was not a valid reason to back out of the deal. His lawyers advised him that he’d probably lose in court, hence he was “forced to” buy the site as your article states.
  - numpad0 1mo ago
    Now he's a nobody though. Wasn't the case previously.

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]

angoragoats 1mo ago

> Musk is aggressively optimistic on what can be achieved and by when That’s putting it quite charitably, IMO. > but rational on product decisions Hard disagree. You only need to look to his entire tenure at DOGE for literally hundreds (thousands?) of counterexamples. Or, if you don’t count that work as “product decisions,” there are other highly questionable product decisions that he is responsible for: the rear doors on the Model X; the lack of instruments/gauges of any kind in front of the driver on the Model 3 and Y; the lack of proper safety sensors/protection for the hood of the Cybertruck, leading to mangled fingers; that stupid yoke steering wheel; and the entirety of Neuralink (just to name a handful).

100percentjake 1mo ago
I am certifiably not a fan of Musk but the yoke in the cybertruck when combined with the drive by wire steering is an absolute engineering masterpiece and a masterclass in systems calibration. The yoke itself has a relatively narrow range of motion of .94 turns lock-to-lock and at slow parking lot speeds that means you can do a 3 point turn, park, parallel park, navigate around, without making large movements of the steering input and you never have to (because you physically cannot) go hand-over-hand. Then at highway speeds the steering ratio is vastly different and the vehicle feels solid as a rock. It's absolutely effortless. Now, on the flipside, the yoke also exists in the Tesla Model S Plaid, which has a traditional manual rack. In here it is the worst god-damned thing to ever curse a vehicle. The width is roughly the diameter of a school bus steering wheel and going hand over hand with it is annoying at best and the whole experience feels like utter garbage.
- angoragoats 1mo ago
  > Now, on the flipside, the yoke also exists in the Tesla Model S Plaid, which has a traditional manual rack. In here it is the worst god-damned thing to ever curse a vehicle. Yes, as I said, bad product decisions.