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This ignores the aspect of consumer data. Credit issuers generate profit through issuing rewards programs in part due to the sale of their customer’s behaviora

This ignores the aspect of consumer data. Credit issuers generate profit through issuing rewards programs in part due to the sale of their customer’s behavioral spending data. Cash and debit users largely retain their data privacy here. It’s hard to put a real world number on what the cost to the consumer is for losing this data ownership, but it is not zero: these data are increasingly used for targeted pricing practices which extort additional margins from the consumer at a later date.

phyzix5761 1mo ago
Debit card usage is also used for data brokering.
- CircuitSeuss 1mo ago
  Yes, but typically only on the retailer/ Point of Sales side. Your bank is not selling that information. Of course, things get weird when you have additional intermediaries like Apple or Google pay. In principle at least, there should be some measurable difference vs credit. Would be very curious to see studies on this if anyone finds one!
  - deleted 1mo ago
    [deleted]
  - rozenmd 1mo ago
    > Your bank is not selling that information Oh it very much is, (at least in Australia the major 4 banks have agreements with data brokers)
petesergeant 1mo ago
I don’t think the credit/debit privacy split you’re imagining works like you think.
NooneAtAll3 1mo ago
I think one factor missing in such discussions is that consumer data can be used for political means And I don't mean "politicians can use it" - but instead, as corporations are more and more involved in the politics, you get targetted and directed based on their needs
- hedora 1mo ago
  It can also be weaponized. Israel uses these sorts of datasets to systematically murder the families and neighbors of their targets. The operation name is something like “Where’s daddy?” They use commercial datasets to figure out where the kids are, then wait for the parent (generally a civilian) to return home, then level the apartment block when it is most likely their are children and neighbors present. Presumably, the same is being done in Ukraine and Russia too.
semiquaver 1mo ago
Do you have evidence to support your claim of targeted pricing practices? In what areas?
- CircuitSeuss 1mo ago
  FTC study, Jan 2025 https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/p246202_surveillancepricing6bstudy_researchsummaries_redacted.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/p246202_surveil... Frequently sited investigative video journalism on grocery delivery prices (and more): https://youtu.be/osxr7xSxsGo https://youtu.be/osxr7xSxsGo Airlines: https://fortune.com/2025/07/16/delta-moves-toward-eliminating-set-prices-in-favor-of-ai-that-determines-how-much-you-personally-will-pay-for-a-ticket/ https://fortune.com/2025/07/16/delta-moves-toward-eliminatin... Insurance: https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/technology/gm-lexisnexis-face-class-action-over-telematics-insurance-data-collection-481325.aspx https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/technology/gm-l... Frankly, it’s everywhere— if a company is large enough, they will leverage consumer data to increase profits as much as the consumer will bear. There are many other examples, but I’ll just link you this as a jumping off point if you want to go further: https://epic.org/krogers-surveillance-pricing-harms-consumers-and-raises-prices-with-or-without-facial-recognition/ https://epic.org/krogers-surveillance-pricing-harms-consumer... Ongoing US house oversight committee investigation http://pallone.house.gov/media/press-releases/pallone-launches-surveillance-pricing-inquiry http://pallone.house.gov/media/press-releases/pallone-launch... https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Letter-to-Booking_3.5.2026.pdf https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Lette... See also: https://lpeproject.org/blog/surveillance-pricing-exploiting-information-asymmetries/ https://lpeproject.org/blog/surveillance-pricing-exploiting-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_pricing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_pricing
  - semiquaver 1mo ago
    With respect, not one of those links supports what you actually said: > these data are increasingly used for targeted pricing practices I personally think that “pricing” an insurance policy based on information obtained from data brokers shouldn’t be particularly controversial: individual pricing based on risk is exactly the point of insurance policies! Without personalized risk evaluation half of the insured population would heavily subsidize the other half, and you create serious adverse incentives. The others are all about companies that seem to want to use this technique. And of course they want to. But several states either outlaw this outright or will do so soon. The Trump FTC has a draft rule which would prohibit it nationwide: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2026/08/ftc-seeks-comment-enforcement-policy-statement-regarding-personalized-pricing https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2026/08/... This is such a toxic idea that I’m not particularly worried about it happening much in the real world.
rkuodys 1mo ago
Is't the fact that data is valuable for somebody, does not mean that it has a cost (price) for me? Spending data is definitely valuable for seller / corporation to know what to produce. I, on the other hand, cannot get money by saving information. It's not zero sum game, that either I have it or seller have value out of it. Just like with garbage - for me old broken furniture might be a garbage, while for other it's a burning fuel.
- ownagefool 1mo ago
  I think the OP is right in that spending data is valuable as a mechanism to figure out how extract more profit, which in the end will have customers paying that price. However, it doesn't need to be exclusively negative. The data will both show where you can price gouge but also simply where demand is. Put your coffee shop near a metro stop and sell sourdough bread and people will buy that because they want it isn't exactly negative.
- Brian_K_White 1mo ago
  The only reason it's valuable is because of it's utility to extract value from you. Not just money either but for instance the power to manipulate. It's not a scientific discovery.
  - hedora 1mo ago
    In the UK, google extracts one average lifetime retirement savings per person in revenue, on average. You could argue that Google’s customers, like advertisers, propaganda firms, etc, all overpay for the data. That seems unlikely, since I don’t see how many of them could be profitable if they were paying Google more than their own revenue.
    - lurk2 1mo ago
      > In the UK, google extracts one average lifetime retirement savings per person in revenue, on average. Those numbers don’t make any sense. Alphabet had 403 billion in revenue in 2025. The UK’s population is around 69,000,000. This amounts to $5,840.57 per person, which is nowhere near a lifetime of retirement savings.
ragnese 1mo ago
Why wouldn't a bank sell debit data just the same as credit data? For that matter, I would expect them to be selling everything they can: credit, debit, written checks, ACH transfers, etc. What incentive is there for them to not do that? Laws? I'm asking sincerely, not rhetorically.
- hedora 1mo ago
  There are laws, even for credit card data. They used to be enforced and largely obeyed.

phyzix5761 1mo ago

Debit card usage is also used for data brokering.

CircuitSeuss 1mo ago
Yes, but typically only on the retailer/ Point of Sales side. Your bank is not selling that information. Of course, things get weird when you have additional intermediaries like Apple or Google pay. In principle at least, there should be some measurable difference vs credit. Would be very curious to see studies on this if anyone finds one!
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
- rozenmd 1mo ago
  > Your bank is not selling that information Oh it very much is, (at least in Australia the major 4 banks have agreements with data brokers)

petesergeant 1mo ago

I don’t think the credit/debit privacy split you’re imagining works like you think.

NooneAtAll3 1mo ago

I think one factor missing in such discussions is that consumer data can be used for political means And I don't mean "politicians can use it" - but instead, as corporations are more and more involved in the politics, you get targetted and directed based on their needs

hedora 1mo ago
It can also be weaponized. Israel uses these sorts of datasets to systematically murder the families and neighbors of their targets. The operation name is something like “Where’s daddy?” They use commercial datasets to figure out where the kids are, then wait for the parent (generally a civilian) to return home, then level the apartment block when it is most likely their are children and neighbors present. Presumably, the same is being done in Ukraine and Russia too.

semiquaver 1mo ago

Do you have evidence to support your claim of targeted pricing practices? In what areas?

CircuitSeuss 1mo ago
FTC study, Jan 2025 https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/p246202_surveillancepricing6bstudy_researchsummaries_redacted.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/p246202_surveil... Frequently sited investigative video journalism on grocery delivery prices (and more): https://youtu.be/osxr7xSxsGo https://youtu.be/osxr7xSxsGo Airlines: https://fortune.com/2025/07/16/delta-moves-toward-eliminating-set-prices-in-favor-of-ai-that-determines-how-much-you-personally-will-pay-for-a-ticket/ https://fortune.com/2025/07/16/delta-moves-toward-eliminatin... Insurance: https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/technology/gm-lexisnexis-face-class-action-over-telematics-insurance-data-collection-481325.aspx https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/technology/gm-l... Frankly, it’s everywhere— if a company is large enough, they will leverage consumer data to increase profits as much as the consumer will bear. There are many other examples, but I’ll just link you this as a jumping off point if you want to go further: https://epic.org/krogers-surveillance-pricing-harms-consumers-and-raises-prices-with-or-without-facial-recognition/ https://epic.org/krogers-surveillance-pricing-harms-consumer... Ongoing US house oversight committee investigation http://pallone.house.gov/media/press-releases/pallone-launches-surveillance-pricing-inquiry http://pallone.house.gov/media/press-releases/pallone-launch... https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Letter-to-Booking_3.5.2026.pdf https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Lette... See also: https://lpeproject.org/blog/surveillance-pricing-exploiting-information-asymmetries/ https://lpeproject.org/blog/surveillance-pricing-exploiting-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_pricing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_pricing
- semiquaver 1mo ago
  With respect, not one of those links supports what you actually said: > these data are increasingly used for targeted pricing practices I personally think that “pricing” an insurance policy based on information obtained from data brokers shouldn’t be particularly controversial: individual pricing based on risk is exactly the point of insurance policies! Without personalized risk evaluation half of the insured population would heavily subsidize the other half, and you create serious adverse incentives. The others are all about companies that seem to want to use this technique. And of course they want to. But several states either outlaw this outright or will do so soon. The Trump FTC has a draft rule which would prohibit it nationwide: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2026/08/ftc-seeks-comment-enforcement-policy-statement-regarding-personalized-pricing https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2026/08/... This is such a toxic idea that I’m not particularly worried about it happening much in the real world.

rkuodys 1mo ago

Is't the fact that data is valuable for somebody, does not mean that it has a cost (price) for me? Spending data is definitely valuable for seller / corporation to know what to produce. I, on the other hand, cannot get money by saving information. It's not zero sum game, that either I have it or seller have value out of it. Just like with garbage - for me old broken furniture might be a garbage, while for other it's a burning fuel.

ownagefool 1mo ago
I think the OP is right in that spending data is valuable as a mechanism to figure out how extract more profit, which in the end will have customers paying that price. However, it doesn't need to be exclusively negative. The data will both show where you can price gouge but also simply where demand is. Put your coffee shop near a metro stop and sell sourdough bread and people will buy that because they want it isn't exactly negative.
Brian_K_White 1mo ago
The only reason it's valuable is because of it's utility to extract value from you. Not just money either but for instance the power to manipulate. It's not a scientific discovery.
- hedora 1mo ago
  In the UK, google extracts one average lifetime retirement savings per person in revenue, on average. You could argue that Google’s customers, like advertisers, propaganda firms, etc, all overpay for the data. That seems unlikely, since I don’t see how many of them could be profitable if they were paying Google more than their own revenue.
  - lurk2 1mo ago
    > In the UK, google extracts one average lifetime retirement savings per person in revenue, on average. Those numbers don’t make any sense. Alphabet had 403 billion in revenue in 2025. The UK’s population is around 69,000,000. This amounts to $5,840.57 per person, which is nowhere near a lifetime of retirement savings.

ragnese 1mo ago

Why wouldn't a bank sell debit data just the same as credit data? For that matter, I would expect them to be selling everything they can: credit, debit, written checks, ACH transfers, etc. What incentive is there for them to not do that? Laws? I'm asking sincerely, not rhetorically.

hedora 1mo ago
There are laws, even for credit card data. They used to be enforced and largely obeyed.