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I don’t think it’s arguably good for the United States to be strong, based on all available evidence. America attracted immigrants who want a better life, and e

I don’t think it’s arguably good for the United States to be strong, based on all available evidence. America attracted immigrants who want a better life, and exploits most of its immigrant labor. Is it better if immigrants remain out of country while America self immolates, loses its “exorbitant privilege” of dollar reserve status, and global living standards rise from clean tech exports from China? I argue yes, they are safer outside than in. America wants immigrants as fuel for capitalism, profits for shareholders (top 10% by wealth own 93% of equities), and taxpayers to help cover $1T in annual interest expense on $40T in sovereign debt (although only the top 40% have a federal income tax liability; the bottom 60% can barely survive on their income). We also spend trillions of dollars and countless lives on meaningless conflicts, although this primarily impacts those who have unfortunately decided to participate in some capacity in the US military and adjacent civilian casualties. I am not anti immigrant. I am anti exploitation. And the United States is an exploitation machine. Stand clear as the machine starts to seize up. This is what the country voted for, after all.

andsoitis 2mo ago
> America attracted immigrants who want a better life, and exploits most of its immigrant labor. Can you tell us more? I ask because I’m and immigrant. I know many many immigrants. And I don’t know a single one who feels “exploited by the US”. The opposite. 20% of S&P 500 companies are run by immigrant CEOs. That number rises to 60% if you take just the top 10 companies.
- toomuchtodo 2mo ago
  > 20% of S&P 500 companies are run by immigrant CEOs. That number rises to 60% if you take just the top 10 companies. These people are interchangeable cogs and not material to the discussion. If these 100 people were gone tomorrow, they'd be replaced by an executive search firm and every company would go on as is. As of this comment, there are approximately 200,000 to 206,000 people working as chief executive officers in formal registered corporations across the United States. Help yourself to an alternate cog, if needed, from the bin. Kaplan, Steven Neil and Sorensen, Morten, Are CEOs Different? (July 1, 2020). Columbia Business School Research Paper No. 16-27, Paris December 2016 Finance Meeting EUROFIDAI - AFFI, Journal of Finance, Forthcoming, Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=2747691 https://ssrn.com/abstract=2747691 or https://doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.2747691 https://doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.2747691 Study: CEO effect on firm performance could be mostly due to chance - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10441713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10441713 - October 2015 (67 comments)
  - andsoitis 2mo ago
    You claimed America exploits immigrants. I present evidence of high rate of immigrant CEOs, which contradicts your claim. I’m also telling you that I and all the other immigrants I know don’t feel exploited, but in fact the opposite. So I don’t know why you think America exploits immigrants.
    - toomuchtodo 2mo ago
      Do you believe immigrant CEOs are the same as the millions of immigrants being paid poverty wages? I’m unsure how to have a rational discussion if you believe a few hundred or so (at best) lucky folks are the same as millions who are not. Immigrant CEOs are a rounding error, they do not matter one bit in this context.
ajmurmann 2mo ago
Immigrants choose to move here because it provides more opportunity. What you call "exploitation" is a massive improvement for many.
- toomuchtodo 2mo ago
  Humans make suboptimal choices often, the evidence is clear (out of emotion vs logic and critical thinking, out of lack of information, etc). I have no issues with policy that keeps them out, for their own safety, and I hope that the economic situation continues to improve outside of the US globally to make the decision trivial to not attempt to immigrate. And so, I do not take issue with this administration destroying pipelines supporting immigration. They do it out of racism, I support it out of compassion and empathy. Do not come, it is not safe. Sometimes you will be lucky, "opportunity," but luck is not a strategy, nor does the evidence show immigrants are lucky at scale (imho). The rest of the world will only continue to improve as the US declines. Fertility rates are rapidly declining globally (71% of the global population lives in countries below replacement rate, as of this comment), which will lead to less economic migration over time. I accept we will disagree on this topic, from different mental models and lived experiences. If one is a capitalist or a neoliberal, I agree no shared ground is to be found. I have too much empathy to be either. Fundamentally, this is vulnerability management applied to economic migration and time window exposure to the experience of living in the US as a human, and alternatives to that path. https://cmsny.org/importance-of-immigrant-labor-to-us-economy/ https://cmsny.org/importance-of-immigrant-labor-to-us-econom... https://workrisenetwork.org/feature/immigrants-low-wage-workforce https://workrisenetwork.org/feature/immigrants-low-wage-work... > Immigrants frequently step into physically demanding, labor-intensive, or low-wage essential jobs that face persistent shortages of native-born workers. > Low-wage immigrant workers are an essential part of the US economy. Most of these workers have been in the US for decades and make up a large share of the workforce in key occupations. Abrupt changes to immigration policy and the escalation of enforcement strategies have affected workers, their families, employers, and communities, creating a climate of fear for people across the country. Despite these rising threats and violations of rights, immigrants continue to show up for work and contribute. There is no labor shortage, only a shortage of workers willing to work at poverty or below wages. If the job is essential, pay a living wage. If the job is dangerous, reduce the danger and supplement with automation. But for this to occur, labor supply must be constrained, which we are in the process of doing. Stealing the turn of phrase, "Starve the beast." We should not be thankful for these workers, we should be ashamed we import them and treat them as a permanent underclass. But I don't see much shame, so you have to beat on the system harder until it reaches failure. The US generates roughly $5T/year in profits, most of which goes to the top 10%. It can afford a bit more humanity, even if forced to do so. Terra Incognita: The Economics of a Shrinking World [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49352811 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49352811 - August 2026 The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44866621 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44866621 - August 2025 (400 comments) The Great Demographic Reversal: Ageing Societies, Waning Inequality, and an Inflation Revival - https://www.suerf.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/f_fa99ccdbea597263a88f27075bd6eb49_17385_suerf.pdf https://www.suerf.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/f_fa99ccdbe... - SUERF Policy Note, Issue No 197, October 2020 (consider this in concert with US unemployment and underemployment, showing we have a surplus of domestic US citizen labor today) Nearly 25% of U.S. workers are "functionally unemployed," economic analysis finds - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/functional-unemployment-us-labor-market-analysis/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/functional-unemployment-us-labo... - August 24th, 2026 CBS News: What is "functional unemployment" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y2gKIGFTns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y2gKIGFTns - August 25th, 2026 Most Americans don't earn enough to afford basic costs of living, analysis finds - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44119317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44119317 - May 2025 (Report: https://www.lisep.org/mql https://www.lisep.org/mql)

andsoitis 2mo ago

> America attracted immigrants who want a better life, and exploits most of its immigrant labor. Can you tell us more? I ask because I’m and immigrant. I know many many immigrants. And I don’t know a single one who feels “exploited by the US”. The opposite. 20% of S&P 500 companies are run by immigrant CEOs. That number rises to 60% if you take just the top 10 companies.

toomuchtodo 2mo ago
> 20% of S&P 500 companies are run by immigrant CEOs. That number rises to 60% if you take just the top 10 companies. These people are interchangeable cogs and not material to the discussion. If these 100 people were gone tomorrow, they'd be replaced by an executive search firm and every company would go on as is. As of this comment, there are approximately 200,000 to 206,000 people working as chief executive officers in formal registered corporations across the United States. Help yourself to an alternate cog, if needed, from the bin. Kaplan, Steven Neil and Sorensen, Morten, Are CEOs Different? (July 1, 2020). Columbia Business School Research Paper No. 16-27, Paris December 2016 Finance Meeting EUROFIDAI - AFFI, Journal of Finance, Forthcoming, Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=2747691 https://ssrn.com/abstract=2747691 or https://doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.2747691 https://doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.2747691 Study: CEO effect on firm performance could be mostly due to chance - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10441713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10441713 - October 2015 (67 comments)
- andsoitis 2mo ago
  You claimed America exploits immigrants. I present evidence of high rate of immigrant CEOs, which contradicts your claim. I’m also telling you that I and all the other immigrants I know don’t feel exploited, but in fact the opposite. So I don’t know why you think America exploits immigrants.
  - toomuchtodo 2mo ago
    Do you believe immigrant CEOs are the same as the millions of immigrants being paid poverty wages? I’m unsure how to have a rational discussion if you believe a few hundred or so (at best) lucky folks are the same as millions who are not. Immigrant CEOs are a rounding error, they do not matter one bit in this context.

ajmurmann 2mo ago

Immigrants choose to move here because it provides more opportunity. What you call "exploitation" is a massive improvement for many.

toomuchtodo 2mo ago
Humans make suboptimal choices often, the evidence is clear (out of emotion vs logic and critical thinking, out of lack of information, etc). I have no issues with policy that keeps them out, for their own safety, and I hope that the economic situation continues to improve outside of the US globally to make the decision trivial to not attempt to immigrate. And so, I do not take issue with this administration destroying pipelines supporting immigration. They do it out of racism, I support it out of compassion and empathy. Do not come, it is not safe. Sometimes you will be lucky, "opportunity," but luck is not a strategy, nor does the evidence show immigrants are lucky at scale (imho). The rest of the world will only continue to improve as the US declines. Fertility rates are rapidly declining globally (71% of the global population lives in countries below replacement rate, as of this comment), which will lead to less economic migration over time. I accept we will disagree on this topic, from different mental models and lived experiences. If one is a capitalist or a neoliberal, I agree no shared ground is to be found. I have too much empathy to be either. Fundamentally, this is vulnerability management applied to economic migration and time window exposure to the experience of living in the US as a human, and alternatives to that path. https://cmsny.org/importance-of-immigrant-labor-to-us-economy/ https://cmsny.org/importance-of-immigrant-labor-to-us-econom... https://workrisenetwork.org/feature/immigrants-low-wage-workforce https://workrisenetwork.org/feature/immigrants-low-wage-work... > Immigrants frequently step into physically demanding, labor-intensive, or low-wage essential jobs that face persistent shortages of native-born workers. > Low-wage immigrant workers are an essential part of the US economy. Most of these workers have been in the US for decades and make up a large share of the workforce in key occupations. Abrupt changes to immigration policy and the escalation of enforcement strategies have affected workers, their families, employers, and communities, creating a climate of fear for people across the country. Despite these rising threats and violations of rights, immigrants continue to show up for work and contribute. There is no labor shortage, only a shortage of workers willing to work at poverty or below wages. If the job is essential, pay a living wage. If the job is dangerous, reduce the danger and supplement with automation. But for this to occur, labor supply must be constrained, which we are in the process of doing. Stealing the turn of phrase, "Starve the beast." We should not be thankful for these workers, we should be ashamed we import them and treat them as a permanent underclass. But I don't see much shame, so you have to beat on the system harder until it reaches failure. The US generates roughly $5T/year in profits, most of which goes to the top 10%. It can afford a bit more humanity, even if forced to do so. Terra Incognita: The Economics of a Shrinking World [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49352811 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49352811 - August 2026 The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44866621 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44866621 - August 2025 (400 comments) The Great Demographic Reversal: Ageing Societies, Waning Inequality, and an Inflation Revival - https://www.suerf.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/f_fa99ccdbea597263a88f27075bd6eb49_17385_suerf.pdf https://www.suerf.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/f_fa99ccdbe... - SUERF Policy Note, Issue No 197, October 2020 (consider this in concert with US unemployment and underemployment, showing we have a surplus of domestic US citizen labor today) Nearly 25% of U.S. workers are "functionally unemployed," economic analysis finds - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/functional-unemployment-us-labor-market-analysis/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/functional-unemployment-us-labo... - August 24th, 2026 CBS News: What is "functional unemployment" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y2gKIGFTns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y2gKIGFTns - August 25th, 2026 Most Americans don't earn enough to afford basic costs of living, analysis finds - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44119317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44119317 - May 2025 (Report: https://www.lisep.org/mql https://www.lisep.org/mql)