10 ms·

You're right, we should all lament the possible passing of another way of judging people inferior to us.

by panzagl 14y ago

ChuckMcM 14y ago
He missed the part where Monsanto makes a weaponized form of the bacteria that you use against your enemies to make them fat.
- marshray 14y ago
  I think the Soviets must have beaten us to it.
indiecore 14y ago
I don't care if someone is fat. What I care about is the loons saying that it's healthy and fine to be morbidly obese and they use stuff like this to back it up. "Gut bacteria are the cause, I can do nothing" "It's genetics" No, it's calories in vs calories out. Maybe these bacteria make you want to eat more, maybe they somehow pull more energy out of food than normal gut flora somehow, in the end it doesn't really matter. Eat less, lose weight; eat more, gain weight; the definition of 'more' and 'less' are individual.
- AsylumWarden 14y ago
  No, you are still wrong. I am morbidly obese and struggle with my weight daily. It will kill me in the end but I want to know what you would do when your metabolism is so low that your normal body temperature hangs at around 97.2F and resists being raised even by means of medications and heavy exercise. I'm sorry but when numerous doctors over 20 years all throw their hands up and say they can't help then there is nothing to be done. I admit, I could starve myself on something around 700 calories a day for the rest of my life but I would rather die; I think most would. I could hit the gym for 6 hours a day, likely with very little improvement, but I need to work to support myself and my family. Finally, I get tired of arm chair nutritionists going off and telling people that it is all about eat less and exercise more. Obesity isn't a one solution fits all problem and it is only arrogance to think otherwise. This article points out that there is yet another possibility to look into. Yet again, something that works against the old mantra eat less exercise more. We simply still don't know enough about the human body. There are going to be many more surprises for the obese population. In the mean time we have to combat our weight and jerks who think they know everything.
  - patrickgzill 14y ago
    I am curious if you have experimented with the following: 1. increase iodine intake in some fashion 2. cut out all wheat products including whole grain 3. Atkins-style diet with restricted carbs in general 4. increased use of ginger as a spice or in tea (some believe it helps increase metabolic rate). 5. high intensity interval training (you mention exercise).
    - indiecore 14y ago
      Caffine, Ephedrine (it's in congestion medicine like Brokaid in the US) and Yohmbine all have complementary effects on your metabolic rate and the last two have been shown to help speed fat loss while minimizing muscle loss.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
  - indiecore 14y ago
    If your condition is as you describe than I'm sorry for you but you're one of like 0.1% of the population (probably less). It's fine, you got dealt a shit hand but you aren't saying that being obese is a healthy lifestyle and the thing is other people are. Everyone I've ever known or read about has gained weight by eating more and lost weight by eating less, again less and more vary from individual to individual but the fact that calories in = calories out for maintenance is a law of physics.
    - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
      > but you aren't saying that being obese is a healthy lifestyle and the thing is other people are. But this article doesn't appear to be saying that. So your attack in this thread is uncalled for. Generally, people trying to find a solution to obesity (like these people seem to be) are not in the obesity is a healthy lifestyle camp. They appear to be in the obesity is a problem we should look into camp.
    - 14y ago
- king_jester 14y ago
  > I don't care if someone is fat. What I care about is the loons saying that it's healthy and fine to be morbidly obese and they use stuff like this to back it up. Being morbidly obese and healthy? Very unlikely to be true. Morbidly obese and ok with? That's 100% legit, it's your body and you are free to do as you please. > No, it's calories in vs calories out. Maybe these bacteria make you want to eat more, maybe they somehow pull more energy out of food than normal gut flora somehow, in the end it doesn't really matter. Eat less, lose weight; eat more, gain weight; the definition of 'more' and 'less' are individual. Except we already have strong evidence to suggest that calorie deficit diets do not have a causal relationship with weight loss and that those diets are hard to maintain over a long period of time, leading people to have yo-yo issues with their weight. > I don't care if someone is fat. When you call fat acceptance folks loons, I don't think you can say that with a straight face.
  - indiecore 14y ago
    >Being morbidly obese and healthy? Very unlikely to be true. Morbidly obese and ok with? That's 100% legit, it's your body and you are free to do as you please. Yes, it is just don't spread misinformation. >Except we already have strong evidence to suggest that calorie deficit diets do not have a causal relationship with weight loss Except for everyone who has ever bulked or cut. >and that those diets are hard to maintain over a long period of time, leading people to have yo-yo issues with their weight. It's haaaaaaaaard. So is starting a company, so is raising a family.
  - leephillips 14y ago
    "it's your body and you are free to do as you please." When obese people fly they rarely buy two seats. They can pretend that their state of health doesn't affect the people around them, but they are deceiving themselves.
    - fotbr 14y ago
      I'm still technically obese, but better than I was. I'm big, but I'm not exceptionally wide. If I was an inch taller, I'd merely be "overweight". If I were 4 inches taller, I'd be pretty close to "normal" weight. I fit in a standard airline seat without hanging over the armrest into the next seat, so why should I pay for it? So yeah, my state of health isn't particularly good right now, but it actually isn't affecting anyone I fly with. Blanket generalizations don't do anyone any good.
- freshhawk 14y ago
  God this calories in / calories out shit has got to die. Stop leaving out the fucking calorie absorption efficiency factor if you don't want to sound like just as much of an idiot as the people you are complaining about. Gasoline has a shitload of calories in it. You will definitely not get fat drinking it. There is literally no one in the field who thinks this is true or ever did. There is certainly an argument about how widely the absorption efficiency varies from person to person, but that's not the same thing as the assertion that it is simply 100% all the time for everyone.
  - indiecore 14y ago
    Yes obviously I'm talking about drinking gas. I guess I stand refuted.
- busyant 14y ago
  I think you're ignoring a wealth of research just because it doesn't fit with your world-view. There is a fair amount of evidence indicating both genetic and epigenetic contributions to obesity. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12574619 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12574619 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Search&db=pubmed&term=17496892 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Search&db=pubmed&... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=obesity%20epigenetics http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=obesity%20epigenetic... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=obesity%20genetics http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=obesity%20genetics

You're right, we should all lament the possible passing of another way of judging people inferior to us.

by panzagl 14y ago

You're right, we should all lament the possible passing of another way of judging people inferior to us.

He missed the part where Monsanto makes a weaponized form of the bacteria that you use against your enemies to make them fat.

marshray 14y ago
I think the Soviets must have beaten us to it.

indiecore 14y ago

I don't care if someone is fat. What I care about is the loons saying that it's healthy and fine to be morbidly obese and they use stuff like this to back it up. "Gut bacteria are the cause, I can do nothing" "It's genetics" No, it's calories in vs calories out. Maybe these bacteria make you want to eat more, maybe they somehow pull more energy out of food than normal gut flora somehow, in the end it doesn't really matter. Eat less, lose weight; eat more, gain weight; the definition of 'more' and 'less' are individual.

AsylumWarden 14y ago
No, you are still wrong. I am morbidly obese and struggle with my weight daily. It will kill me in the end but I want to know what you would do when your metabolism is so low that your normal body temperature hangs at around 97.2F and resists being raised even by means of medications and heavy exercise. I'm sorry but when numerous doctors over 20 years all throw their hands up and say they can't help then there is nothing to be done. I admit, I could starve myself on something around 700 calories a day for the rest of my life but I would rather die; I think most would. I could hit the gym for 6 hours a day, likely with very little improvement, but I need to work to support myself and my family. Finally, I get tired of arm chair nutritionists going off and telling people that it is all about eat less and exercise more. Obesity isn't a one solution fits all problem and it is only arrogance to think otherwise. This article points out that there is yet another possibility to look into. Yet again, something that works against the old mantra eat less exercise more. We simply still don't know enough about the human body. There are going to be many more surprises for the obese population. In the mean time we have to combat our weight and jerks who think they know everything.
- patrickgzill 14y ago
  I am curious if you have experimented with the following: 1. increase iodine intake in some fashion 2. cut out all wheat products including whole grain 3. Atkins-style diet with restricted carbs in general 4. increased use of ginger as a spice or in tea (some believe it helps increase metabolic rate). 5. high intensity interval training (you mention exercise).
  - indiecore 14y ago
    Caffine, Ephedrine (it's in congestion medicine like Brokaid in the US) and Yohmbine all have complementary effects on your metabolic rate and the last two have been shown to help speed fat loss while minimizing muscle loss.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
- indiecore 14y ago
  If your condition is as you describe than I'm sorry for you but you're one of like 0.1% of the population (probably less). It's fine, you got dealt a shit hand but you aren't saying that being obese is a healthy lifestyle and the thing is other people are. Everyone I've ever known or read about has gained weight by eating more and lost weight by eating less, again less and more vary from individual to individual but the fact that calories in = calories out for maintenance is a law of physics.
  - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
    > but you aren't saying that being obese is a healthy lifestyle and the thing is other people are. But this article doesn't appear to be saying that. So your attack in this thread is uncalled for. Generally, people trying to find a solution to obesity (like these people seem to be) are not in the obesity is a healthy lifestyle camp. They appear to be in the obesity is a problem we should look into camp.
  - 14y ago
king_jester 14y ago
> I don't care if someone is fat. What I care about is the loons saying that it's healthy and fine to be morbidly obese and they use stuff like this to back it up. Being morbidly obese and healthy? Very unlikely to be true. Morbidly obese and ok with? That's 100% legit, it's your body and you are free to do as you please. > No, it's calories in vs calories out. Maybe these bacteria make you want to eat more, maybe they somehow pull more energy out of food than normal gut flora somehow, in the end it doesn't really matter. Eat less, lose weight; eat more, gain weight; the definition of 'more' and 'less' are individual. Except we already have strong evidence to suggest that calorie deficit diets do not have a causal relationship with weight loss and that those diets are hard to maintain over a long period of time, leading people to have yo-yo issues with their weight. > I don't care if someone is fat. When you call fat acceptance folks loons, I don't think you can say that with a straight face.
- indiecore 14y ago
  >Being morbidly obese and healthy? Very unlikely to be true. Morbidly obese and ok with? That's 100% legit, it's your body and you are free to do as you please. Yes, it is just don't spread misinformation. >Except we already have strong evidence to suggest that calorie deficit diets do not have a causal relationship with weight loss Except for everyone who has ever bulked or cut. >and that those diets are hard to maintain over a long period of time, leading people to have yo-yo issues with their weight. It's haaaaaaaaard. So is starting a company, so is raising a family.
- leephillips 14y ago
  "it's your body and you are free to do as you please." When obese people fly they rarely buy two seats. They can pretend that their state of health doesn't affect the people around them, but they are deceiving themselves.
  - fotbr 14y ago
    I'm still technically obese, but better than I was. I'm big, but I'm not exceptionally wide. If I was an inch taller, I'd merely be "overweight". If I were 4 inches taller, I'd be pretty close to "normal" weight. I fit in a standard airline seat without hanging over the armrest into the next seat, so why should I pay for it? So yeah, my state of health isn't particularly good right now, but it actually isn't affecting anyone I fly with. Blanket generalizations don't do anyone any good.
freshhawk 14y ago
God this calories in / calories out shit has got to die. Stop leaving out the fucking calorie absorption efficiency factor if you don't want to sound like just as much of an idiot as the people you are complaining about. Gasoline has a shitload of calories in it. You will definitely not get fat drinking it. There is literally no one in the field who thinks this is true or ever did. There is certainly an argument about how widely the absorption efficiency varies from person to person, but that's not the same thing as the assertion that it is simply 100% all the time for everyone.
- indiecore 14y ago
  Yes obviously I'm talking about drinking gas. I guess I stand refuted.
busyant 14y ago
I think you're ignoring a wealth of research just because it doesn't fit with your world-view. There is a fair amount of evidence indicating both genetic and epigenetic contributions to obesity. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12574619 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12574619 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Search&db=pubmed&term=17496892 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Search&db=pubmed&... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=obesity%20epigenetics http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=obesity%20epigenetic... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=obesity%20genetics http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=obesity%20genetics