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What a funny tangent to go off on. JXL was dead. Apple is who brought it back to life[1], and the only reason Chrome resurrected JXL, and now Firefox followed

What a funny tangent to go off on. JXL was dead. Apple is who brought it back to life[1], and the only reason Chrome resurrected JXL, and now Firefox followed their path, is because Apple pushed JXL support to a billion plus devices. I know people like complaining about Apple, but there's a "read the room" kind of moment where people just seem to either not know the context or are just knee jerking. [1] Worth noting that Apple used the reference implementation, libjxl, and that project still remains the reference implementation with the Rust port being experimental (and of course Apple deployed JXL support over a year before the Rust port even existed). Maybe they'll switch to it at some point, but it's a bit premature to complain about.

deadbunny 1mo ago
[flagged]
- concinds 1mo ago
  I don't see what this has to do with the topic, sorry.
  - wongarsu 1mo ago
    Their point is that Apple is the Nintendo of computing. They don't care what others do, they just do their own thing. Which produces some great things and some stupid things. They also don't care whether you think what they are doing is great or stupid, they just continue doing their thing Which then tracks back to the beginning of the thread: the correct answer to whether apple will adopt jxl-rs or keep libjxl is "who knows, no point trying to predict them". Which is not a value judgement How you square all of that with the iPhone regularly copying features Android had for years is your decision. Might be a symptom of the same, might be that this all was an entirely inaccurate description of Apple
- _joel 1mo ago
  That useless strip could play lemmings and doom, it wasn't all bad
- tombert 1mo ago
  > make a mouse you can't use while charging it I'm not one to usually defend Apple-ism, but it always felt that this was such a nothing-burger. The mouse charges in like fifteen minutes and lasts for weeks. I don't have a work Macbook (or job :) ) right now, but when I did I would just occasionally plug it in while I went to the bathroom. It really was not nearly as annoying as everyone said it was.
  - spartanatreyu 1mo ago
    Remember all those times you needed to make a change to something a few minutes before it was submitted/presented? Imagine if you couldn't, because you needed to charge your mouse first.
ChoosesBarbecue 1mo ago
I believe Firefox was the first to put out a standards position about adopting jxl if a Rust implementation happened. Chromium only aligned their position this year I believe, prior to that, it was a complete rejection. Which is to say, Chrome followed Firefox here. (Yes, I know Google Research implemented jxl-rs, but then, they also implemented jxl. Chrome’s position appears independent of them.)
spartanatreyu 1mo ago
> JXL was dead. Apple is who brought it back to life No, it was actually the PDF Association. They added JXL to the PDF standard. If google wanted to maintain support for displaying PDFs, they would need to add support for JXL.
- NewJazz 1mo ago
  * wanted to maintain support for displaying jxl images that are embedded in PDFs
- llm_nerd 1mo ago
  The PDF consortium added JXL to the PDF spec two years after Apple deployed support to billions of devices. To anyone ackchyually paying attention to the JXL spec, lamenting that this superior format wallowed in obscurity (largely, it should be noted, because Google dumped it, and so many others just follow the leader of Google), Apple actually completely changed the path of the format's adoption.
  - cbolton 1mo ago
    To summarize the timeline: 2015-2021: Google and Cloudinary develop the technical foundations, work on standardization with the JPEG group and write the reference implementation 2021: Chrome and Firefox introduce experimental support 2022: The Chrome team decides to remove the experimental support, citing lack of interest in the ecosystem 2023: Apple surprises by shipping support in all their products 2024: Firefox says they don't want the attack surface of 100K lines of multithreaded C++ but they will ship support if Google implements a Rust version September 2025: Google delivers jxl-rs v0.1.0 (a Rust implementation) October 2025: The PDF Association announces they want to include the format in PDF, citing the need for HDR support in particular November 2025: The Chrome team reverses its position, citing Safari support, Firefox's new stance, Interop proposals and the PDF announcement. So while Google played the largest part by far in making JPEG-XL a thing, Apple probably played an outsize role in getting it adopted so fast. But its long-term fate? Who knows... The PDF Association might well have adopted JPEG-XL without Apple: they cited HDR support, wide-gamut, ultra-high resolution and channel number, not "works on iOS". And having it as the format for HDR in PDF would have forced Chrome's hand no matter what Apple did. (Small heads up: the "anyone with a clue agrees with me" framing is more grating than useful.)
cyberrock 1mo ago
Safari using the reference implementation is meaningless because they don't even seem to turn on all features in it. Mozilla and Chromium declared that progressive decoding was the main blocker, the authors added it to libjxl-rs earlier this year, then now they're shipping it. Safari hasn't enabled progressive decoding or animation even though it's been in libjxl since 2022. If I wasn't in the trenches of Cordova/React development a decade ago, I would say I'm baffled.

deadbunny 1mo ago

[flagged]

concinds 1mo ago
I don't see what this has to do with the topic, sorry.
- wongarsu 1mo ago
  Their point is that Apple is the Nintendo of computing. They don't care what others do, they just do their own thing. Which produces some great things and some stupid things. They also don't care whether you think what they are doing is great or stupid, they just continue doing their thing Which then tracks back to the beginning of the thread: the correct answer to whether apple will adopt jxl-rs or keep libjxl is "who knows, no point trying to predict them". Which is not a value judgement How you square all of that with the iPhone regularly copying features Android had for years is your decision. Might be a symptom of the same, might be that this all was an entirely inaccurate description of Apple
_joel 1mo ago
That useless strip could play lemmings and doom, it wasn't all bad
tombert 1mo ago
> make a mouse you can't use while charging it I'm not one to usually defend Apple-ism, but it always felt that this was such a nothing-burger. The mouse charges in like fifteen minutes and lasts for weeks. I don't have a work Macbook (or job :) ) right now, but when I did I would just occasionally plug it in while I went to the bathroom. It really was not nearly as annoying as everyone said it was.
- spartanatreyu 1mo ago
  Remember all those times you needed to make a change to something a few minutes before it was submitted/presented? Imagine if you couldn't, because you needed to charge your mouse first.

ChoosesBarbecue 1mo ago

I believe Firefox was the first to put out a standards position about adopting jxl if a Rust implementation happened. Chromium only aligned their position this year I believe, prior to that, it was a complete rejection. Which is to say, Chrome followed Firefox here. (Yes, I know Google Research implemented jxl-rs, but then, they also implemented jxl. Chrome’s position appears independent of them.)

spartanatreyu 1mo ago

> JXL was dead. Apple is who brought it back to life No, it was actually the PDF Association. They added JXL to the PDF standard. If google wanted to maintain support for displaying PDFs, they would need to add support for JXL.

NewJazz 1mo ago
* wanted to maintain support for displaying jxl images that are embedded in PDFs
llm_nerd 1mo ago
The PDF consortium added JXL to the PDF spec two years after Apple deployed support to billions of devices. To anyone ackchyually paying attention to the JXL spec, lamenting that this superior format wallowed in obscurity (largely, it should be noted, because Google dumped it, and so many others just follow the leader of Google), Apple actually completely changed the path of the format's adoption.
- cbolton 1mo ago
  To summarize the timeline: 2015-2021: Google and Cloudinary develop the technical foundations, work on standardization with the JPEG group and write the reference implementation 2021: Chrome and Firefox introduce experimental support 2022: The Chrome team decides to remove the experimental support, citing lack of interest in the ecosystem 2023: Apple surprises by shipping support in all their products 2024: Firefox says they don't want the attack surface of 100K lines of multithreaded C++ but they will ship support if Google implements a Rust version September 2025: Google delivers jxl-rs v0.1.0 (a Rust implementation) October 2025: The PDF Association announces they want to include the format in PDF, citing the need for HDR support in particular November 2025: The Chrome team reverses its position, citing Safari support, Firefox's new stance, Interop proposals and the PDF announcement. So while Google played the largest part by far in making JPEG-XL a thing, Apple probably played an outsize role in getting it adopted so fast. But its long-term fate? Who knows... The PDF Association might well have adopted JPEG-XL without Apple: they cited HDR support, wide-gamut, ultra-high resolution and channel number, not "works on iOS". And having it as the format for HDR in PDF would have forced Chrome's hand no matter what Apple did. (Small heads up: the "anyone with a clue agrees with me" framing is more grating than useful.)

cyberrock 1mo ago

Safari using the reference implementation is meaningless because they don't even seem to turn on all features in it. Mozilla and Chromium declared that progressive decoding was the main blocker, the authors added it to libjxl-rs earlier this year, then now they're shipping it. Safari hasn't enabled progressive decoding or animation even though it's been in libjxl since 2022. If I wasn't in the trenches of Cordova/React development a decade ago, I would say I'm baffled.