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if someone finds out you did this yourself then can't the city put a lien on your property preventing a sale until you rip everything out and have it re-done by

by chasd00 2mo ago

if someone finds out you did this yourself then can't the city put a lien on your property preventing a sale until you rip everything out and have it re-done by a licensed person? I know with electricity whether you do it per code or not a licensed electrician has to sign off before you can sell your house. at least i think that's how it is..

senordevnyc 2mo ago
I mean...what are the odds of that? And if it does happen, it sounds like a hassle, but the overall cost in that scenario probably isn't THAT much higher than having the licensed person do it in the first place? Sure, if the odds are 50/50, or you go to jail, or the fines are $50k or something, then yeah, do it right from the start. But if there's a 2% chance of getting caught, getting caught costs you 150%, and not getting caught costs you 10%...the choice is pretty obvious here, isn't it?
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
ghaff 2mo ago
Barring very obvious problems, I think you're way overestimating how deeply either home inspectors or town/cities are going to be deeply inspecting (especially older) properties and/or permits. My property is over 200 years old and a lot of the work on it has been licensed but there is doubtless a lot that is older.
Kirby64 2mo ago
> I know with electricity whether you do it per code or not a licensed electrician has to sign off before you can sell your house. at least i think that's how it is.. Where? No electrician is inspecting every house that goes up for sale in the US. Sure you can ask an electrician to inspect a house electrical… but that doesn’t bar a house sale anywhere I’ve ever seen.
- pwg 2mo ago
  For the home inspections I've been a "walkthrough witness" to, the "electrical inspection" portion involved the inspector opening the normal access door to the breaker panel levers, and plugging in one of those $5 Home Depot wiring fault detectors into a few random plugs here and there to verify no wiring faults appear. But they do not remove the panel cover to look inside, nor do they open up any receptacle box anywhere to look at any of the wiring inside. So they wouldn't know (nor discover) if the wiring job was done well or done in a shoddy manner.
  - Kirby64 2mo ago
    Better home inspections will remove breaker panel box or at very minimum use a thermal camera to check if the breakers are all reasonably warm. Usually both. But that still doesn’t really tell you much about whether something is done to code or not.
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
rootusrootus 2mo ago
AFAIK the biggest risk is disclosure. Some states (Oregon for sure) explicitly require the seller to disclose unpermitted work. It's part of the standard forms you fill out with your realtor when making the listing. They won't stop you from selling the house as-is but some buyers will walk, some will demand you get it permitted, most will at least want a real inspection done. Getting as-built work permitted after the fact will cost 2-3x as much in permit costs than it would have if done properly, and it may require you to remove drywall to expose things for inspection, but as long as it meets code you won't have to rip everything out and have it redone by a licensed person. In most places you can do work on your own house, so it's the lack of permit that needs to be remedied.
- ghaff 2mo ago
  Home inspections are pretty normal when you buy a property. I have no idea what work on my >200 year-old house was permitted. While the latest batch was, I'm guessing a great deal wasn't. But I don't actually know. And, if you're buying a >200 year old house, you know that along with a lot of other things.
  - rootusrootus 2mo ago
    Inspections are common but mostly just a surface examination. They cannot, for example, inspect electrical wiring. They can recommend you hire an electrical inspector. I just sold a 120 year old house. “I don’t know” is a valid answer to the disclosure requirement but it better be true.
    - ghaff 2mo ago
      Or have plausible deniability. When I've have had some new windows installed a couple of times, the installer tacked on a lead mitigation fee which was fine because they knew there was probably lead paint buried somewhere but I don't actually specifically know about lead paint buried under layers of newer paint and the like and most of the interior has been reworked to a significant degree. If you personally really care, don't buy an old house. (Also, when I had the latest round of rework after a kitchen fire, my electrician replaced a bunch of remaining knob and tube wiring which probably dated to whenever the house was electrified.)
matherial 2mo ago
In the SF Bay Area, I'd bet good money that the vast majority of work like that is unpermitted. When I was adding an EV charging station to my home, I actually paid a (reputable, licensed) electrician and he rolled his eyes hard at me when I asked about permits. He said it would add weeks to the project and double the cost. Without it, it was a three-hour job. The city isn't in the business of busting doors and issuing citations if you replace kitchen cabinets without a permit. They basically act if someone credibly complains, which is mostly if you're doing some exterior additions / changes that annoy a neighbor.
KPGv2 2mo ago
> I know with electricity whether you do it per code or not a licensed electrician has to sign off before you can sell your house. In Texas every homeowner is legally entitled to work on their own electrical system without oversight from an electrician.

by chasd00 2mo ago

senordevnyc 2mo ago

I mean...what are the odds of that? And if it does happen, it sounds like a hassle, but the overall cost in that scenario probably isn't THAT much higher than having the licensed person do it in the first place? Sure, if the odds are 50/50, or you go to jail, or the fines are $50k or something, then yeah, do it right from the start. But if there's a 2% chance of getting caught, getting caught costs you 150%, and not getting caught costs you 10%...the choice is pretty obvious here, isn't it?

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]

ghaff 2mo ago

Barring very obvious problems, I think you're way overestimating how deeply either home inspectors or town/cities are going to be deeply inspecting (especially older) properties and/or permits. My property is over 200 years old and a lot of the work on it has been licensed but there is doubtless a lot that is older.

Kirby64 2mo ago

> I know with electricity whether you do it per code or not a licensed electrician has to sign off before you can sell your house. at least i think that's how it is.. Where? No electrician is inspecting every house that goes up for sale in the US. Sure you can ask an electrician to inspect a house electrical… but that doesn’t bar a house sale anywhere I’ve ever seen.

pwg 2mo ago
For the home inspections I've been a "walkthrough witness" to, the "electrical inspection" portion involved the inspector opening the normal access door to the breaker panel levers, and plugging in one of those $5 Home Depot wiring fault detectors into a few random plugs here and there to verify no wiring faults appear. But they do not remove the panel cover to look inside, nor do they open up any receptacle box anywhere to look at any of the wiring inside. So they wouldn't know (nor discover) if the wiring job was done well or done in a shoddy manner.
- Kirby64 2mo ago
  Better home inspections will remove breaker panel box or at very minimum use a thermal camera to check if the breakers are all reasonably warm. Usually both. But that still doesn’t really tell you much about whether something is done to code or not.

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

rootusrootus 2mo ago

AFAIK the biggest risk is disclosure. Some states (Oregon for sure) explicitly require the seller to disclose unpermitted work. It's part of the standard forms you fill out with your realtor when making the listing. They won't stop you from selling the house as-is but some buyers will walk, some will demand you get it permitted, most will at least want a real inspection done. Getting as-built work permitted after the fact will cost 2-3x as much in permit costs than it would have if done properly, and it may require you to remove drywall to expose things for inspection, but as long as it meets code you won't have to rip everything out and have it redone by a licensed person. In most places you can do work on your own house, so it's the lack of permit that needs to be remedied.

ghaff 2mo ago
Home inspections are pretty normal when you buy a property. I have no idea what work on my >200 year-old house was permitted. While the latest batch was, I'm guessing a great deal wasn't. But I don't actually know. And, if you're buying a >200 year old house, you know that along with a lot of other things.
- rootusrootus 2mo ago
  Inspections are common but mostly just a surface examination. They cannot, for example, inspect electrical wiring. They can recommend you hire an electrical inspector. I just sold a 120 year old house. “I don’t know” is a valid answer to the disclosure requirement but it better be true.
  - ghaff 2mo ago
    Or have plausible deniability. When I've have had some new windows installed a couple of times, the installer tacked on a lead mitigation fee which was fine because they knew there was probably lead paint buried somewhere but I don't actually specifically know about lead paint buried under layers of newer paint and the like and most of the interior has been reworked to a significant degree. If you personally really care, don't buy an old house. (Also, when I had the latest round of rework after a kitchen fire, my electrician replaced a bunch of remaining knob and tube wiring which probably dated to whenever the house was electrified.)

matherial 2mo ago

In the SF Bay Area, I'd bet good money that the vast majority of work like that is unpermitted. When I was adding an EV charging station to my home, I actually paid a (reputable, licensed) electrician and he rolled his eyes hard at me when I asked about permits. He said it would add weeks to the project and double the cost. Without it, it was a three-hour job. The city isn't in the business of busting doors and issuing citations if you replace kitchen cabinets without a permit. They basically act if someone credibly complains, which is mostly if you're doing some exterior additions / changes that annoy a neighbor.

KPGv2 2mo ago

> I know with electricity whether you do it per code or not a licensed electrician has to sign off before you can sell your house. In Texas every homeowner is legally entitled to work on their own electrical system without oversight from an electrician.