4 ms·

Why do people accept this reality when talking about the TSA, but not other government agencies? All government agencies are like this, especially the Federal o

Why do people accept this reality when talking about the TSA, but not other government agencies? All government agencies are like this, especially the Federal ones.

Firehed 14y ago
The TSA is more actively harmful to the freedoms we (supposedly) cherish, and is a strong push towards a surveillance society and a police state. Many other agencies are equally unproductive (or actually do something useful, just in a very inefficient manner), but not actively working against something we care about.
- chernevik 14y ago
  The TSA is more _obviously_ harmful. And many other agencies aren't _actively_ working against things we care about -- that is, obstruction per se isn't generally their goal. But they're still obstructive just the same.
- pavel_lishin 14y ago
  The TSA is also extremely visible in the public's eye. How many people do you know that have complained that the CIA was spying on them, vs. how many people do you know who have complained that they got government-groped?
- fennecfoxen 14y ago
  I take it you don't care about a quasi-reasonable budget, the kind without a deficit of ~1/3. Or about the economic growth lost when tax dollars siphon it out of the broader economy. (Or even away from alternative quasi-productive government infrastructure projects.) Unsurprising, really; there are entire political parties based on the premise of not caring about those things, and in many countries. ;)
mahyarm 14y ago
The TSA is a pet issue of the upper-middle class because they annoy and harass them frequently and they are an easy and relatively safe way to push back against a police style authority. They're a figurehead of what was lost after 9/11. The TSA is also an obvious waste. They aren't that much different before hand although, their function were covered by a hodgepodge of regulations usually dictated by the FAA and private airport security employed at airports US wide. The upper-middle class tends to set the agenda for the media in general. They're also the archetype of what are depicted in TV shows and so on. Why the recent school shooting became a national outrage is probably because they were a middle class school. The death toll also added to it.
- toyg 14y ago
  I wish you didn't use that sneering tone. Class warfare by the upper class is a real thing, but trivializing every item as "pet issue" of this or that class doesn't help anybody and makes you look like a loony. Airport security in the US is now significantly worse than anywhere else, and it has nothing to do with class.
  - d2vid 14y ago
    Getting annoyed by airport security has everything to do with class - you need to fly often enough to find it annoying. We don't talk about stop and frisk over and over again on HN because most of us don't live in areas where we are subjected to that police behavior every time we go out for a walk.
    - greyfade 14y ago
      I find it annoying, and I haven't flown since before the TSA was founded.
  - mahyarm 14y ago
    He was asking why so much media _attention_ was being focused on the TSA vs other government agencies, not how the US compares to the rest of the world, or if it was class warfare. It's really true that the media uses the upper-middle class as the focus group. The upper class, the %0.1, is too alien, too small, too smart, too international and thus too unrelatable for most Americans, so the upper-middle sets the tone instead. You also have to separate UCSIS, the scary border organization with teeth and a horrible attitude, and the TSA, the organization that takes your water bottles away. Also, you need to have money to fly a lot, and that starts around upper-middle class.
  - drcube 14y ago
    Dude, poor people don't fly. It absolutely has to do with class. The systems set up to serve the poor are significantly worse than the TSA in every way, and I say this as someone who hates the TSA with a white hot passion. But the blogosphere isn't filled with tirades about how stupid, ineffective, wasteful and absurd the process is for obtaining food stamps, for example. Or getting a menial job, or getting adequate legal representation, or fighting slumlords, or getting police protection, or any number of things. We hear about the TSA much more often because it overwhelmingly affects the wealthy.
digikata 14y ago
Bureaucracy is the technology of scaling people in large organizations. Any endeavor of scale is going to show inefficiencies - government or private.
ArbitraryLimits 14y ago
All bureaucracies seek to perpetuate their own existence; most also accomplish something worthwhile along the way. The TSA only does the perpetuation.
rayiner 14y ago
That's not actually true, but don't let reality get in the way of your little rant.
flxmglrb 14y ago
People say the same things about the DEA and IRS quite frequently. (Short-sighted people also say it about things like NPR, NASA, and the EPA.) Complaining about government waste is one of the great American pastimes.

Why do people accept this reality when talking about the TSA, but not other government agencies? All government agencies are like this, especially the Federal ones.

Firehed 14y ago

The TSA is more actively harmful to the freedoms we (supposedly) cherish, and is a strong push towards a surveillance society and a police state. Many other agencies are equally unproductive (or actually do something useful, just in a very inefficient manner), but not actively working against something we care about.

chernevik 14y ago
The TSA is more _obviously_ harmful. And many other agencies aren't _actively_ working against things we care about -- that is, obstruction per se isn't generally their goal. But they're still obstructive just the same.
pavel_lishin 14y ago
The TSA is also extremely visible in the public's eye. How many people do you know that have complained that the CIA was spying on them, vs. how many people do you know who have complained that they got government-groped?
fennecfoxen 14y ago
I take it you don't care about a quasi-reasonable budget, the kind without a deficit of ~1/3. Or about the economic growth lost when tax dollars siphon it out of the broader economy. (Or even away from alternative quasi-productive government infrastructure projects.) Unsurprising, really; there are entire political parties based on the premise of not caring about those things, and in many countries. ;)

mahyarm 14y ago

The TSA is a pet issue of the upper-middle class because they annoy and harass them frequently and they are an easy and relatively safe way to push back against a police style authority. They're a figurehead of what was lost after 9/11. The TSA is also an obvious waste. They aren't that much different before hand although, their function were covered by a hodgepodge of regulations usually dictated by the FAA and private airport security employed at airports US wide. The upper-middle class tends to set the agenda for the media in general. They're also the archetype of what are depicted in TV shows and so on. Why the recent school shooting became a national outrage is probably because they were a middle class school. The death toll also added to it.

toyg 14y ago
I wish you didn't use that sneering tone. Class warfare by the upper class is a real thing, but trivializing every item as "pet issue" of this or that class doesn't help anybody and makes you look like a loony. Airport security in the US is now significantly worse than anywhere else, and it has nothing to do with class.
- d2vid 14y ago
  Getting annoyed by airport security has everything to do with class - you need to fly often enough to find it annoying. We don't talk about stop and frisk over and over again on HN because most of us don't live in areas where we are subjected to that police behavior every time we go out for a walk.
  - greyfade 14y ago
    I find it annoying, and I haven't flown since before the TSA was founded.
- mahyarm 14y ago
  He was asking why so much media _attention_ was being focused on the TSA vs other government agencies, not how the US compares to the rest of the world, or if it was class warfare. It's really true that the media uses the upper-middle class as the focus group. The upper class, the %0.1, is too alien, too small, too smart, too international and thus too unrelatable for most Americans, so the upper-middle sets the tone instead. You also have to separate UCSIS, the scary border organization with teeth and a horrible attitude, and the TSA, the organization that takes your water bottles away. Also, you need to have money to fly a lot, and that starts around upper-middle class.
- drcube 14y ago
  Dude, poor people don't fly. It absolutely has to do with class. The systems set up to serve the poor are significantly worse than the TSA in every way, and I say this as someone who hates the TSA with a white hot passion. But the blogosphere isn't filled with tirades about how stupid, ineffective, wasteful and absurd the process is for obtaining food stamps, for example. Or getting a menial job, or getting adequate legal representation, or fighting slumlords, or getting police protection, or any number of things. We hear about the TSA much more often because it overwhelmingly affects the wealthy.

digikata 14y ago

Bureaucracy is the technology of scaling people in large organizations. Any endeavor of scale is going to show inefficiencies - government or private.

ArbitraryLimits 14y ago

All bureaucracies seek to perpetuate their own existence; most also accomplish something worthwhile along the way. The TSA only does the perpetuation.

rayiner 14y ago

That's not actually true, but don't let reality get in the way of your little rant.

flxmglrb 14y ago

People say the same things about the DEA and IRS quite frequently. (Short-sighted people also say it about things like NPR, NASA, and the EPA.) Complaining about government waste is one of the great American pastimes.