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>has played There you have it. My comment was about the current post-industrial west. You are making a disingenuous attempt at shifting blame onto the west. Th

by floro 1mo ago

>has played There you have it. My comment was about the current post-industrial west. You are making a disingenuous attempt at shifting blame onto the west. The main problem countries today are China and India.

pioyi 1mo ago
China is below the US and Russia per capita. You can't compare a country with 1.4 billion people to the US. He just gave you the data and you refused to read it even though it talks about the current state of things (besides past emissions). Per capita, India is on place 124/207.
Windchaser 1mo ago
> You are making a disingenuous attempt at shifting blame onto the west. What makes this disingenuous? I thought I was pretty clear and honest about my belief that the West is to blame for a huge portion of the warming so far -- and this is backed by data -- and I was clear and honest that I think we are not meeting our responsibility today to lead the way out of GHG emissions. And even today, we USians still have a rather higher GHG emissions per capita than the Chinese do. (India is barely even in the picture, and their emissions per capita today are 1/6 of the US') So, yes: this still represents a problem with the *current* west. We should be rather further along in decarbonizing, but we are dragging our feet, held up by the fact that a lot of folks don't want to acknowledge that ACC is a problem.
- floro 1mo ago
  What makes it disingenuous is you're using past data to make statements about the current situation. Of course the West / US produced the most Co2 overall, because it's been through industrialization. What matters now is the current net contributors to global Co2, and that is about 60% China and at least 10% India. This is because we outsource our Co2 to those countries through manufacturing. My main point still is that WE don't make a difference. Saving electricity in Europe changes nothing, not does buying an EV. If we want to make a change we need to stop buying Chinese manufactured products.

by floro 1mo ago

pioyi 1mo ago

China is below the US and Russia per capita. You can't compare a country with 1.4 billion people to the US. He just gave you the data and you refused to read it even though it talks about the current state of things (besides past emissions). Per capita, India is on place 124/207.

Windchaser 1mo ago

> You are making a disingenuous attempt at shifting blame onto the west. What makes this disingenuous? I thought I was pretty clear and honest about my belief that the West is to blame for a huge portion of the warming so far -- and this is backed by data -- and I was clear and honest that I think we are not meeting our responsibility today to lead the way out of GHG emissions. And even today, we USians still have a rather higher GHG emissions per capita than the Chinese do. (India is barely even in the picture, and their emissions per capita today are 1/6 of the US') So, yes: this still represents a problem with the *current* west. We should be rather further along in decarbonizing, but we are dragging our feet, held up by the fact that a lot of folks don't want to acknowledge that ACC is a problem.

floro 1mo ago
What makes it disingenuous is you're using past data to make statements about the current situation. Of course the West / US produced the most Co2 overall, because it's been through industrialization. What matters now is the current net contributors to global Co2, and that is about 60% China and at least 10% India. This is because we outsource our Co2 to those countries through manufacturing. My main point still is that WE don't make a difference. Saving electricity in Europe changes nothing, not does buying an EV. If we want to make a change we need to stop buying Chinese manufactured products.