4 ms·

>eating any meat is morally questionable. (I say this as a person who does eat a lot of meat). I think this is very wrong. Doesn't account for when you don't h

>eating any meat is morally questionable. (I say this as a person who does eat a lot of meat). I think this is very wrong. Doesn't account for when you don't have a choice, to be healthy. You need to eat more, you need to consider all possible situations, construction work people need to sustain all that physical labor somehow. It's a more serious chore to even attempt to build a non meat based diet, let alone sourcing everything. If we could have a healthy alternative that accounts for everything (taste included) then maybe you can make that argument. Until then it's quite shortsighted and ignorant.

dumberquestions 1mo ago
Interesting that you think having any drawbacks whatsoever to not eating meat is sufficient to justify eating it, I would've thought the drawbacks had to at least outweigh the suffering involved.
- 47635274172635 1mo ago
  As compared to what, those animals never having experienced life ... at all? All farmed animals get to live and experience this place because of us. What you are fundamentally proposing is wiping them from existence, from possible existence. You cannot really argue for that without it being more goulish that you're trying to make it seem when they get turned into food. All of them die eventually, even if we don't eat them. And none would even exist if we didn't need to eat them. So provided we offer decent conditions for their lived experience it can be a fair trade, since they wouldn't even exist in the first place. Who are you to judge if the cow thinks it's worth it or not? I mean the cow could very well go "moo yeah" if you present the deal "couple of years of grazing running around then get turned into a hamburger? Or no existence at all, what say you?"
  - dumberquestions 1mo ago
    If it was only a matter of painless killing I agree that it would've been a lot more gray, but that's not the type of world we currently live in.
suriyaG 1mo ago
I didn't suggest sourcing a non-meat diet. I'm suggesting the opposite. by design eating meat is morally questionable. (as do so many things with our modern society.) all meat is fair game, because all animal dependent diet is questionable anyway.
samudrijan 1mo ago
Verfiably false statement that you need meat to do physical labor. Lazy statement that “sourcing” a vegetarian meal is difficult. Eating less meat is better for your health and better for the planet. The few exceptions I think worth noting are if you were born into and continue to live in largely/culturally hunter culture (Inuit, bushmen) or where you live is not sustainable for agriculture (Tibet.) Most folks could just cook more rice, beans, greens and be fine.
- 47635274172635 1mo ago
  >Verfiably false statement that you need meat to do physical labor. I don't think a lot of people like you understand the real state of things, how a lot of stuff gets done, costs and what's needed for it. One is the quick maffs you do in your head and it's a different thing how real people in real situations behave at scale. You cannot shame billions of people into not eating meat, they'll just come for you and anyone deciding it for them. You need to have a realistic alternative for it, this shaming nonsense is puerile and gets us nowhere, just allows you to finger wag from your high horse is all. I find this perspective and way to go about it extremely shallow and childish.
  - samudrijan 1mo ago
    That’s a lot of words to say you’re triggered.
soulofmischief 1mo ago
Your excuse for participating in one of the most vile enterprises in human history, factory farming, is that it's too much effort to collectively figure out a less barbaric diet? And literally no vegan has a problem with people who medically need to eat meet doing so. I own several cats, they are carnivores. The problem is scale: The fact that some people medically must eat meat does not give a free pass for apathetic barbarism to the rest of society. Even collectively cutting out a single meat or dairy-based meal a week would contribute to a massive reduction in demand. You have no excuse. Use this energy to build a fairer world for all animals instead of using it to get defensive whenever someone brings up how massively inhumane modern factory farming is.
- aziaziazi 1mo ago
  Please read this as an information instead of an advice > cats, they are carnivores Carnivores eat (mostly) meat in the wild but thrive on a vegetal kibbles diet, granted they includes the right nutrients. I get the "non natural" intuition, however that's also the case for others kibbles - from the cheapest to the best ones. My veterinary recommendation: https://www.benevo.com/vegan-cat-food-from-benevo/ https://www.benevo.com/vegan-cat-food-from-benevo/ https://www.amipetfood.com/en/products/lines/one-planet/ami-cats https://www.amipetfood.com/en/products/lines/one-planet/ami-...
  - soulofmischief 1mo ago
    I will look into these and consult my veterinarians, thanks for the links!
  - YeGoblynQueenne 1mo ago
    Your links go to pet food shops online that sell vegan food. How is that "veterinary recommendation"? Giving vegan food to cats is animal abuse. If you can't stand the idea of feeding other animals to a cat, don't keep a cat as a pet. Dogs can handle plant-based (but not vegan) diets much better. There are many other animals you could keep as a pet, also. E.g. goats are vegetarian and they have strong, interesting and engaging personalities. If you want a vegan pet, get a goat. Edit: And if you don't have enough space to keep a pet goat then you probably shouldn't be keeping a pet dog or a pet cat either. One reason people abuse the animals they keep as pets is they assume that an animal is just like a little, furry human and can thrive and be well in any condition a human can, e.g. like living in an apartment etc. This is so far from the truth it's crazy. Most people should really not keep pets.
lobofta 1mo ago
It is not only totally possible to be vegan, but it can be more healthy too. The Acadamy of Nutrition and Dietetics, the largest org for nutritionist and dieticians in the world, have a position paper out saying that a well planned diet is appropriate for all stages of life, including pregnancy. The NHS says the same thing. We even have vegan top athletes nowadays such as Djokovic and Hammilton. You can be vegan, so any justification you bring for violence against animals is for taste pleasure, habbit, culture and just generally not having evolved nor being up to date with the science.

dumberquestions 1mo ago

Interesting that you think having any drawbacks whatsoever to not eating meat is sufficient to justify eating it, I would've thought the drawbacks had to at least outweigh the suffering involved.

47635274172635 1mo ago
As compared to what, those animals never having experienced life ... at all? All farmed animals get to live and experience this place because of us. What you are fundamentally proposing is wiping them from existence, from possible existence. You cannot really argue for that without it being more goulish that you're trying to make it seem when they get turned into food. All of them die eventually, even if we don't eat them. And none would even exist if we didn't need to eat them. So provided we offer decent conditions for their lived experience it can be a fair trade, since they wouldn't even exist in the first place. Who are you to judge if the cow thinks it's worth it or not? I mean the cow could very well go "moo yeah" if you present the deal "couple of years of grazing running around then get turned into a hamburger? Or no existence at all, what say you?"
- dumberquestions 1mo ago
  If it was only a matter of painless killing I agree that it would've been a lot more gray, but that's not the type of world we currently live in.

suriyaG 1mo ago

I didn't suggest sourcing a non-meat diet. I'm suggesting the opposite. by design eating meat is morally questionable. (as do so many things with our modern society.) all meat is fair game, because all animal dependent diet is questionable anyway.

samudrijan 1mo ago

Verfiably false statement that you need meat to do physical labor. Lazy statement that “sourcing” a vegetarian meal is difficult. Eating less meat is better for your health and better for the planet. The few exceptions I think worth noting are if you were born into and continue to live in largely/culturally hunter culture (Inuit, bushmen) or where you live is not sustainable for agriculture (Tibet.) Most folks could just cook more rice, beans, greens and be fine.

47635274172635 1mo ago
>Verfiably false statement that you need meat to do physical labor. I don't think a lot of people like you understand the real state of things, how a lot of stuff gets done, costs and what's needed for it. One is the quick maffs you do in your head and it's a different thing how real people in real situations behave at scale. You cannot shame billions of people into not eating meat, they'll just come for you and anyone deciding it for them. You need to have a realistic alternative for it, this shaming nonsense is puerile and gets us nowhere, just allows you to finger wag from your high horse is all. I find this perspective and way to go about it extremely shallow and childish.
- samudrijan 1mo ago
  That’s a lot of words to say you’re triggered.

soulofmischief 1mo ago

Your excuse for participating in one of the most vile enterprises in human history, factory farming, is that it's too much effort to collectively figure out a less barbaric diet? And literally no vegan has a problem with people who medically need to eat meet doing so. I own several cats, they are carnivores. The problem is scale: The fact that some people medically must eat meat does not give a free pass for apathetic barbarism to the rest of society. Even collectively cutting out a single meat or dairy-based meal a week would contribute to a massive reduction in demand. You have no excuse. Use this energy to build a fairer world for all animals instead of using it to get defensive whenever someone brings up how massively inhumane modern factory farming is.

aziaziazi 1mo ago
Please read this as an information instead of an advice > cats, they are carnivores Carnivores eat (mostly) meat in the wild but thrive on a vegetal kibbles diet, granted they includes the right nutrients. I get the "non natural" intuition, however that's also the case for others kibbles - from the cheapest to the best ones. My veterinary recommendation: https://www.benevo.com/vegan-cat-food-from-benevo/ https://www.benevo.com/vegan-cat-food-from-benevo/ https://www.amipetfood.com/en/products/lines/one-planet/ami-cats https://www.amipetfood.com/en/products/lines/one-planet/ami-...
- soulofmischief 1mo ago
  I will look into these and consult my veterinarians, thanks for the links!
- YeGoblynQueenne 1mo ago
  Your links go to pet food shops online that sell vegan food. How is that "veterinary recommendation"? Giving vegan food to cats is animal abuse. If you can't stand the idea of feeding other animals to a cat, don't keep a cat as a pet. Dogs can handle plant-based (but not vegan) diets much better. There are many other animals you could keep as a pet, also. E.g. goats are vegetarian and they have strong, interesting and engaging personalities. If you want a vegan pet, get a goat. Edit: And if you don't have enough space to keep a pet goat then you probably shouldn't be keeping a pet dog or a pet cat either. One reason people abuse the animals they keep as pets is they assume that an animal is just like a little, furry human and can thrive and be well in any condition a human can, e.g. like living in an apartment etc. This is so far from the truth it's crazy. Most people should really not keep pets.

lobofta 1mo ago

It is not only totally possible to be vegan, but it can be more healthy too. The Acadamy of Nutrition and Dietetics, the largest org for nutritionist and dieticians in the world, have a position paper out saying that a well planned diet is appropriate for all stages of life, including pregnancy. The NHS says the same thing. We even have vegan top athletes nowadays such as Djokovic and Hammilton. You can be vegan, so any justification you bring for violence against animals is for taste pleasure, habbit, culture and just generally not having evolved nor being up to date with the science.