3 ms·

> Also answer this, if Americans wouldn't have bought the African slaves, all those African-Americans that are now enjoying life in the land of the free, where

> Also answer this, if Americans wouldn't have bought the African slaves, all those African-Americans that are now enjoying life in the land of the free, where would they have been born today? Think if they could push a button today to wipe slavery from the past, but that meant they get to spawn back in Africa, they would push it or not? Legitimate question. Because it's not like nothing good came out of it. The reason that Africa is in a poor state of affairs is because of rampant colonization and pillaging by European settlers, of which enslavement was a byproduct. In your alternate universe where slavery never happened, Ethiopia and Mali would be wealthy empires.

47635274172635 1mo ago
You are moving the goalpost and just make up stuff. Plenty of time to ... do anything, yet nothing has really been done there. If they are so great they should have been able to defend themselves. If you want to keep the discussion real and objective, feelings aside. I am also not trying to excuse past behaviors or anything of the sorts. It was what it was and we always strive to do better when we know better. But that being said, systems are built around what is functional considering everything that can happen. When you account for everything to insure your safety and survival, it seems to work out like it did. On all sides. And again, these interactions are never one way, longer term there's benefits to both sides, the local country, and descendants of all slaves and slave owners. And just as an aside, I could very well argue most of us are still slaves today, but with clearly way better conditions and freedom of movement. But if you don't toil away daily, 5 days a week, you risk medical issues or lack of shelter, kind of like the homeless discussion in this thread. In some cases even death. So putting what a few rich people from hundreds of years ago did, on me, a regular European folk, is shortsighted or even evil. I had nothing to do with any of it, my ancestors were peasants. And the same is valid for most people OP is referring to when saying "europeans". It's pure nonsense.
- hackable_sand 1mo ago
  Reading about the history and effects will help clarify some of your confusion.
jcranmer 1mo ago
The Mali Empire peaked around 150 years before Christopher Columbus "discovers" the Americas, and it finally collapses in 1599, finished off by Morocco. The Transatlantic Slave Trade doesn't really kick into gear until the mid-17th centuries, after the Mali Empire is no longer around. If you wanted a better example, you might have picked, say, Benin. That you use Mali as an example of an empire screwed by Europeans in Africa suggests to me a general poverty of knowledge about any pre-colonial African history.
- peterfirefly 1mo ago
  Weren't both the Benin and Mali empires based on conquest, exploitation, and slavery?
  - jcranmer 1mo ago
    Benin is probably the most well known of the slaver kingdoms of the slave coast, although Benin was around for much longer than just the peak slaving period. Mali Empire was primarily driven by its control of the trans-Saharan trade routes, at least the southern end of them, which allowed it to profit immensely from the gold and salt trades.
cucumber3732842 1mo ago
>The reason that Africa is in a poor state of affairs is because of rampant colonization and pillaging by European settlers, of which enslavement was a byproduct. The colonization mostly happened after slavery.
modo_mario 1mo ago
>Mali would be wealthy empires. Slavery was a foundational economic and social pillar of the mali empire.

47635274172635 1mo ago

You are moving the goalpost and just make up stuff. Plenty of time to ... do anything, yet nothing has really been done there. If they are so great they should have been able to defend themselves. If you want to keep the discussion real and objective, feelings aside. I am also not trying to excuse past behaviors or anything of the sorts. It was what it was and we always strive to do better when we know better. But that being said, systems are built around what is functional considering everything that can happen. When you account for everything to insure your safety and survival, it seems to work out like it did. On all sides. And again, these interactions are never one way, longer term there's benefits to both sides, the local country, and descendants of all slaves and slave owners. And just as an aside, I could very well argue most of us are still slaves today, but with clearly way better conditions and freedom of movement. But if you don't toil away daily, 5 days a week, you risk medical issues or lack of shelter, kind of like the homeless discussion in this thread. In some cases even death. So putting what a few rich people from hundreds of years ago did, on me, a regular European folk, is shortsighted or even evil. I had nothing to do with any of it, my ancestors were peasants. And the same is valid for most people OP is referring to when saying "europeans". It's pure nonsense.

hackable_sand 1mo ago
Reading about the history and effects will help clarify some of your confusion.

jcranmer 1mo ago

The Mali Empire peaked around 150 years before Christopher Columbus "discovers" the Americas, and it finally collapses in 1599, finished off by Morocco. The Transatlantic Slave Trade doesn't really kick into gear until the mid-17th centuries, after the Mali Empire is no longer around. If you wanted a better example, you might have picked, say, Benin. That you use Mali as an example of an empire screwed by Europeans in Africa suggests to me a general poverty of knowledge about any pre-colonial African history.

peterfirefly 1mo ago
Weren't both the Benin and Mali empires based on conquest, exploitation, and slavery?
- jcranmer 1mo ago
  Benin is probably the most well known of the slaver kingdoms of the slave coast, although Benin was around for much longer than just the peak slaving period. Mali Empire was primarily driven by its control of the trans-Saharan trade routes, at least the southern end of them, which allowed it to profit immensely from the gold and salt trades.

cucumber3732842 1mo ago

>The reason that Africa is in a poor state of affairs is because of rampant colonization and pillaging by European settlers, of which enslavement was a byproduct. The colonization mostly happened after slavery.

modo_mario 1mo ago

>Mali would be wealthy empires. Slavery was a foundational economic and social pillar of the mali empire.