3 ms·

> It's funny that environmentalists would rather see the world burn than solve all emissions problems with nuclear. This criticism would hold more weight if en

by vkou 1mo ago

> It's funny that environmentalists would rather see the world burn than solve all emissions problems with nuclear. This criticism would hold more weight if environmentalists held a shred of power. They aren't the ones at the steering wheel.

noosphr 1mo ago
They had enough power to close down all the nuclear power plants in Germany.
- vkou 1mo ago
  And despite that, this is what Germany achieved in the past 35 years. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/GHG%20emissions%20by%20sector%201990-2025_budgets2020-2030%20.png https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/GHG%20em... Over a 60% reduction in emissions from the electrical sector. --- Compare that to the US, where environmentalists haven't been allowed anywhere near any influence in the federal government... And you'll very quickly see that they are just a convenient boogieman, and not the actual problem. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/inventory-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions-and-sinks https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/inventory-us-greenhouse-gas...
  - noosphr 1mo ago
    And yet it produces 8 times the co2 per mwh that France does: https://www.eea.europa.eu/en/analysis/indicators/greenhouse-gas-emission-intensity-of-1?activeAccordion=546a7c35-9188-4d23-94ee-005d97c26f2b https://www.eea.europa.eu/en/analysis/indicators/greenhouse-...
  - Mawr 1mo ago
    So are you saying Germany achieved a greater reduction due to shutting down nuclear than they would have otherwise? If not, your argument is moot.
    - vkou 1mo ago
      I'm observing that a country with an actual environmentalist political presence achieved a greater overall reduction than one without. Maybe they aren't the problem, as popular as they may be to bitch at on this forum. Even if one of their policy points is counterproductive, the rest more than made up for it.
      - noosphr 1mo ago
        Yeah, France is doing great. Germany is heading to the stone age. Which I suppose is an environmental policy of sorts. Who would have thought the Morgenthau plan would be so popular in 21st century Germany.
- jurip 1mo ago
  Or, perhaps, them not being in power, it wasn't them who shut them down? I'm sure they influenced the policy and were happy (and wrong) about it, but they were in the opposition, and had been for several years.
- Timon3 1mo ago
  Ah yes, the famously environmentalist CDU. Obviously the center-right conservative party consists 100% of environmentalists, that's why they fight so hard to push back the ICE ban, prop up the oil & gas industry (just look up Katharina Reiche if you want to feel sick for a bit), and why they run smear campaigns against the Greens.
  - leonidasrup 1mo ago
    The current Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy Katharina Reiche is continuing the powerplant strategy of the previous Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy Robert Habeck. The 2024 plans under Green minister Robert Habeck called for 25 GW of capacity of new gas power plants (which should be in future fueled with green hydrogen. But until enough hydrogen is available at good price, the new gas powerplants will burn natural gas. Some skeptics say that the cost of green hydrogen will be higher than natural gas for a very long time). The estimated construction costs for the new gas powerplants was in 2024 around 40 billion EUR. Most of this costs will be covered by the German state. https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/kraftwerksstrategie-106.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/kraftwerksstra...
    - Timon3 1mo ago
      > [...] Katharina Reiche is continuing the powerplant strategy of the previous Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy Robert Habeck I'm honestly flabbergasted at this propaganda attempt, because you happen to have left out (just a tiny excerpt): - Reiche's previous employer being one of Germany's biggest energy firms (Eon), and almost every decision she has made happens to be according to Eons interests - Reiche has been trying to stop renewable energy projects in any way she can: https://www.t-online.de/heim-garten/aktuelles/id_101189302/netzpaket-von-reiche-in-90-landkreisen-droht-stopp-fuer-solar-und-wind.html https://www.t-online.de/heim-garten/aktuelles/id_101189302/n... - Reiche is trying to move parts of her ministry to run on consultants instead: https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Strategische-Top-Beratung-Reiche-will-Aufgaben-des-Ministeriums-an-Berater-auslagern-id30679526.html https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Strategische-Top-Beratung-Reiche... - Reiche is subsidizing fossil fuels enough for her own party to criticize her plans: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/spritpreise-entlastung-pendlerpauschale-cdu-kritik-reiche-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/spritpreise-entlastung-pend... - Reiche ignores studies from her own ministry that show positive economic results regarding renewable energy: https://www.t-online.de/finanzen/energie/id_101226464/wirtschaftswachstum-durch-energiewende-reiche-laesst-studie-verschwinden.html https://www.t-online.de/finanzen/energie/id_101226464/wirtsc... - Reiche is literally and explicitly asking the fossil industry to supply reasons her ministry can use for swerving investments from renewable towards non-renewable energy (and these requests were not documented as required, before investigative journalism found them): https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/katherina-reiches-ministerium-bat-enbw-um-argumente-fuer-gaskraftwerke-a-1ce69ada-8eff-444b-a7f9-4eaf4d6e5447 https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/katherina-reiches-minister... - Reiche keeps lying to the population about the costs of renewables, and many other related numbers: https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/katherina-reiche-so-vergeigt-die-union-ein-weiteres-zukunftsprojekt-kolumne-a-94e5ac30-f259-474e-ba8a-a50bc0e3e1ac https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/katherina-reiche-... (heading "Entweder sie weiß es nicht – oder sie lügt"; there are older issues where she lied, easy to look up) - Reiche is introducing legislation that's openly corrupt enough for the Bundeskartellamt to publish a statement against it: https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/DE/AktuelleMeldungen/2026/05_07_2026_Stellungnahme_Entwurf_StromVKG.html https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/DE/Aktuel... - Reiche's change in plans compared to Habeck is disastrous enough to unnecessarily cost the population up to 40 billion euros: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/verfehlt-reiche-ihr-ziel-wirtschaftsministerin-konnte-energiewende-40-milliarden-euro-teurer-machen-15587598.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/verfehlt-reiche-ihr-ziel... - Reiche's modifications of a law planned by Habeck is so disastrous that even the oil & gas lobby spoke out against them: https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Auch-Reiches-Verbuendete-warnen-vor-neuem-Heizungsgesetz-id30887570.html https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Auch-Reiches-Verbuendete-warnen-... - Reiche's modifications of said law, e.g. removing the ban on new fossil heating systems, are unconstitutional: https://www.fr.de/wirtschaft/belastet-reiche-gebaeudemodernisierungsgesetz-verfassungswidrig-gutachten-zr-94374634.html https://www.fr.de/wirtschaft/belastet-reiche-gebaeudemoderni... - Internal documents show that Reiche is literally acting in the interest of her previous employer, one of Germany's biggest energy firms: https://fragdenstaat.de/artikel/exklusiv/2026/07/die-eon-ministerin/ https://fragdenstaat.de/artikel/exklusiv/2026/07/die-eon-min... - Reiche is trying to push back the ICE ban, which is not only incredibly dangerous from a climate change perspective, but which is going to kill the German car industry because they'd rather stick with ICEs than actually invest into building EVs, when the EV market is growing rapidly! https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2026-07/co2-flottengrenzwerte-eu-kommission-katherina-reiche-autobauer-strafzahlungen https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2026-07/co2-flotteng... - Reiche is using dirty tricks (like not hiring enough employees in certain positions) to prevent a supply chain due diligence law from actually taking effect: https://www.zdfheute.de/politik/deutschland/lieferketten-gesetz-reiche-100.html https://www.zdfheute.de/politik/deutschland/lieferketten-ges... This is just a tiny excerpt from the last few months. Since the current government came into power, Reiche has been relentlessly acting in the interests of the fossil lobby while deliberately putting the breaks on anything renewable, all while lying and acting as a mouthpiece for fossil propaganda (again, explicitly proven!). --- Seriously, I'd love to know - why do you deliberately spread propaganda for the fossil industry, like you did here?

by vkou 1mo ago

noosphr 1mo ago

They had enough power to close down all the nuclear power plants in Germany.

vkou 1mo ago
And despite that, this is what Germany achieved in the past 35 years. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/GHG%20emissions%20by%20sector%201990-2025_budgets2020-2030%20.png https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/GHG%20em... Over a 60% reduction in emissions from the electrical sector. --- Compare that to the US, where environmentalists haven't been allowed anywhere near any influence in the federal government... And you'll very quickly see that they are just a convenient boogieman, and not the actual problem. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/inventory-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions-and-sinks https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/inventory-us-greenhouse-gas...
- noosphr 1mo ago
  And yet it produces 8 times the co2 per mwh that France does: https://www.eea.europa.eu/en/analysis/indicators/greenhouse-gas-emission-intensity-of-1?activeAccordion=546a7c35-9188-4d23-94ee-005d97c26f2b https://www.eea.europa.eu/en/analysis/indicators/greenhouse-...
- Mawr 1mo ago
  So are you saying Germany achieved a greater reduction due to shutting down nuclear than they would have otherwise? If not, your argument is moot.
  - vkou 1mo ago
    I'm observing that a country with an actual environmentalist political presence achieved a greater overall reduction than one without. Maybe they aren't the problem, as popular as they may be to bitch at on this forum. Even if one of their policy points is counterproductive, the rest more than made up for it.
    - noosphr 1mo ago
      Yeah, France is doing great. Germany is heading to the stone age. Which I suppose is an environmental policy of sorts. Who would have thought the Morgenthau plan would be so popular in 21st century Germany.
jurip 1mo ago
Or, perhaps, them not being in power, it wasn't them who shut them down? I'm sure they influenced the policy and were happy (and wrong) about it, but they were in the opposition, and had been for several years.
Timon3 1mo ago
Ah yes, the famously environmentalist CDU. Obviously the center-right conservative party consists 100% of environmentalists, that's why they fight so hard to push back the ICE ban, prop up the oil & gas industry (just look up Katharina Reiche if you want to feel sick for a bit), and why they run smear campaigns against the Greens.
- leonidasrup 1mo ago
  The current Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy Katharina Reiche is continuing the powerplant strategy of the previous Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy Robert Habeck. The 2024 plans under Green minister Robert Habeck called for 25 GW of capacity of new gas power plants (which should be in future fueled with green hydrogen. But until enough hydrogen is available at good price, the new gas powerplants will burn natural gas. Some skeptics say that the cost of green hydrogen will be higher than natural gas for a very long time). The estimated construction costs for the new gas powerplants was in 2024 around 40 billion EUR. Most of this costs will be covered by the German state. https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/kraftwerksstrategie-106.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/kraftwerksstra...
  - Timon3 1mo ago
    > [...] Katharina Reiche is continuing the powerplant strategy of the previous Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy Robert Habeck I'm honestly flabbergasted at this propaganda attempt, because you happen to have left out (just a tiny excerpt): - Reiche's previous employer being one of Germany's biggest energy firms (Eon), and almost every decision she has made happens to be according to Eons interests - Reiche has been trying to stop renewable energy projects in any way she can: https://www.t-online.de/heim-garten/aktuelles/id_101189302/netzpaket-von-reiche-in-90-landkreisen-droht-stopp-fuer-solar-und-wind.html https://www.t-online.de/heim-garten/aktuelles/id_101189302/n... - Reiche is trying to move parts of her ministry to run on consultants instead: https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Strategische-Top-Beratung-Reiche-will-Aufgaben-des-Ministeriums-an-Berater-auslagern-id30679526.html https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Strategische-Top-Beratung-Reiche... - Reiche is subsidizing fossil fuels enough for her own party to criticize her plans: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/spritpreise-entlastung-pendlerpauschale-cdu-kritik-reiche-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/spritpreise-entlastung-pend... - Reiche ignores studies from her own ministry that show positive economic results regarding renewable energy: https://www.t-online.de/finanzen/energie/id_101226464/wirtschaftswachstum-durch-energiewende-reiche-laesst-studie-verschwinden.html https://www.t-online.de/finanzen/energie/id_101226464/wirtsc... - Reiche is literally and explicitly asking the fossil industry to supply reasons her ministry can use for swerving investments from renewable towards non-renewable energy (and these requests were not documented as required, before investigative journalism found them): https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/katherina-reiches-ministerium-bat-enbw-um-argumente-fuer-gaskraftwerke-a-1ce69ada-8eff-444b-a7f9-4eaf4d6e5447 https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/katherina-reiches-minister... - Reiche keeps lying to the population about the costs of renewables, and many other related numbers: https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/katherina-reiche-so-vergeigt-die-union-ein-weiteres-zukunftsprojekt-kolumne-a-94e5ac30-f259-474e-ba8a-a50bc0e3e1ac https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/katherina-reiche-... (heading "Entweder sie weiß es nicht – oder sie lügt"; there are older issues where she lied, easy to look up) - Reiche is introducing legislation that's openly corrupt enough for the Bundeskartellamt to publish a statement against it: https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/DE/AktuelleMeldungen/2026/05_07_2026_Stellungnahme_Entwurf_StromVKG.html https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/DE/Aktuel... - Reiche's change in plans compared to Habeck is disastrous enough to unnecessarily cost the population up to 40 billion euros: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/verfehlt-reiche-ihr-ziel-wirtschaftsministerin-konnte-energiewende-40-milliarden-euro-teurer-machen-15587598.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/verfehlt-reiche-ihr-ziel... - Reiche's modifications of a law planned by Habeck is so disastrous that even the oil & gas lobby spoke out against them: https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Auch-Reiches-Verbuendete-warnen-vor-neuem-Heizungsgesetz-id30887570.html https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Auch-Reiches-Verbuendete-warnen-... - Reiche's modifications of said law, e.g. removing the ban on new fossil heating systems, are unconstitutional: https://www.fr.de/wirtschaft/belastet-reiche-gebaeudemodernisierungsgesetz-verfassungswidrig-gutachten-zr-94374634.html https://www.fr.de/wirtschaft/belastet-reiche-gebaeudemoderni... - Internal documents show that Reiche is literally acting in the interest of her previous employer, one of Germany's biggest energy firms: https://fragdenstaat.de/artikel/exklusiv/2026/07/die-eon-ministerin/ https://fragdenstaat.de/artikel/exklusiv/2026/07/die-eon-min... - Reiche is trying to push back the ICE ban, which is not only incredibly dangerous from a climate change perspective, but which is going to kill the German car industry because they'd rather stick with ICEs than actually invest into building EVs, when the EV market is growing rapidly! https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2026-07/co2-flottengrenzwerte-eu-kommission-katherina-reiche-autobauer-strafzahlungen https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2026-07/co2-flotteng... - Reiche is using dirty tricks (like not hiring enough employees in certain positions) to prevent a supply chain due diligence law from actually taking effect: https://www.zdfheute.de/politik/deutschland/lieferketten-gesetz-reiche-100.html https://www.zdfheute.de/politik/deutschland/lieferketten-ges... This is just a tiny excerpt from the last few months. Since the current government came into power, Reiche has been relentlessly acting in the interests of the fossil lobby while deliberately putting the breaks on anything renewable, all while lying and acting as a mouthpiece for fossil propaganda (again, explicitly proven!). --- Seriously, I'd love to know - why do you deliberately spread propaganda for the fossil industry, like you did here?