4 ms·

I am not a gamer, but aren't high FPS tiring to the eyes because of the lack of natural motion blur which gives the sense of unnatural movement? Isn't that more

by return0 14y ago

I am not a gamer, but aren't high FPS tiring to the eyes because of the lack of natural motion blur which gives the sense of unnatural movement? Isn't that more important than increasing FPS?

dalore 14y ago
Increasing the FPS of a game isn't going to change the refresh rate of the monitor. It makes the game smoother because there are more game loops, so more calculations on a smaller time delta.
josephlord 14y ago
No tired eyes, real world is infinite frame rate. You will get better 'natural' (psycho visual) motion blur as you approach that infinite frame rate. The required artificial blur to hide the lack of smooth motion will be reduced although can always be increased for artistic effect if desired. Of course LCD displays will be locked to particular refresh rates on a TV probably 24Hz, 50Hz or 60Hz (although it may then apply motion compensated interpolation to take them up to 96-120Hz or even 192-240Hz but these are often turned off in 'Game' mode to reduce latency and provide less lag between input and result). * Infinte frame rate is effectively whatever your mind can't distinguish from infinite.
- Torn 14y ago
  I was going to pick you up on 'infinite' - eyes clearly see at a certain framerate (just look at the spokes on helicopter blades or the spokes of a spinning wheel to see the results of that) but I guess it depends on the person. That's quite an interesting thought actually, how many fps do human eyes see at? To answer that you I imagine you'd need to get into how the human eye works (rods vs cones), how moving images are created, and how interlacing works on movies and things compared to game engines which don't interlace. http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
  - return0 14y ago
    The spokes and spinning car wheel effects are only visible under flickering lights (eg. fluorescent) and in videos. The eye does not have a "frame rate", although individual cells in the retina and the visual system have slow integration times.
    - Torn 14y ago
      Ah right, I could have sworn I've seen that effect in normal light. Flickering light does make sense, and of course videos make sense as you're limiting the frame rate.
  - mikeash 14y ago
    Eyes don't have a "frame rate" the same way that computer displays and cameras do. For example, under steady light, your eyes will never experience the common effect where wheels appear to spin backwards due to aliasing. There is obviously a limit to how fast our eyes see, and that limit is somewhere within an order of magnitude or so of 100fps. But it's still a mostly continuous process. There's no hard dividing line between one frame and the next.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      I could swear I've seen bicycle wheels "turn backward" in sunlight. Maybe an effect of parallax between the layers of spokes?
      - mikeash 14y ago
        I've seen an effect like that which comes from the angle of reflected light changing as the wheel moves. Completely different effect, although it can look somewhat similar. It's independent of the speed of rotation, though.
sp332 14y ago
You may be confusing film with game rendering? If you shoot a movie with a camera that keeps the shutter open for a little while, you will get some motion blur. This lets the motion in the film look smooth. But if you render a game at only 24 fps, each frame will have no motion blur and it will look choppy. (Some games try to add motion blur as well, which helps a little.) In film, if you increase the frame rate, you will get less motion blur and I guess it might look less smooth. But if you increase the fps of a game, it will look smoother. (If the game adds motion blur separately, you could still have huge amounts of motion blur even with a high frame rate, because it's a fake effect.)
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- Torn 14y ago
  Good examples of frame interlacing here: http://www.100fps.com/ http://www.100fps.com/
colinshark 14y ago
Ideally, you have 60fps AND motion blur, for a picture most approximating reality. The fancy games have motion blur. Any game without motion blur is going to show momentary disjointed images, which is alleviated by motion blur. However, you still want the high frame rate for smoothness and low response time for inputs.

by return0 14y ago

I am not a gamer, but aren't high FPS tiring to the eyes because of the lack of natural motion blur which gives the sense of unnatural movement? Isn't that more important than increasing FPS?

dalore 14y ago

Increasing the FPS of a game isn't going to change the refresh rate of the monitor. It makes the game smoother because there are more game loops, so more calculations on a smaller time delta.

josephlord 14y ago

No tired eyes, real world is infinite frame rate. You will get better 'natural' (psycho visual) motion blur as you approach that infinite frame rate. The required artificial blur to hide the lack of smooth motion will be reduced although can always be increased for artistic effect if desired. Of course LCD displays will be locked to particular refresh rates on a TV probably 24Hz, 50Hz or 60Hz (although it may then apply motion compensated interpolation to take them up to 96-120Hz or even 192-240Hz but these are often turned off in 'Game' mode to reduce latency and provide less lag between input and result). * Infinte frame rate is effectively whatever your mind can't distinguish from infinite.

Torn 14y ago
I was going to pick you up on 'infinite' - eyes clearly see at a certain framerate (just look at the spokes on helicopter blades or the spokes of a spinning wheel to see the results of that) but I guess it depends on the person. That's quite an interesting thought actually, how many fps do human eyes see at? To answer that you I imagine you'd need to get into how the human eye works (rods vs cones), how moving images are created, and how interlacing works on movies and things compared to game engines which don't interlace. http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
- return0 14y ago
  The spokes and spinning car wheel effects are only visible under flickering lights (eg. fluorescent) and in videos. The eye does not have a "frame rate", although individual cells in the retina and the visual system have slow integration times.
  - Torn 14y ago
    Ah right, I could have sworn I've seen that effect in normal light. Flickering light does make sense, and of course videos make sense as you're limiting the frame rate.
- mikeash 14y ago
  Eyes don't have a "frame rate" the same way that computer displays and cameras do. For example, under steady light, your eyes will never experience the common effect where wheels appear to spin backwards due to aliasing. There is obviously a limit to how fast our eyes see, and that limit is somewhere within an order of magnitude or so of 100fps. But it's still a mostly continuous process. There's no hard dividing line between one frame and the next.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    I could swear I've seen bicycle wheels "turn backward" in sunlight. Maybe an effect of parallax between the layers of spokes?
    - mikeash 14y ago
      I've seen an effect like that which comes from the angle of reflected light changing as the wheel moves. Completely different effect, although it can look somewhat similar. It's independent of the speed of rotation, though.

sp332 14y ago

You may be confusing film with game rendering? If you shoot a movie with a camera that keeps the shutter open for a little while, you will get some motion blur. This lets the motion in the film look smooth. But if you render a game at only 24 fps, each frame will have no motion blur and it will look choppy. (Some games try to add motion blur as well, which helps a little.) In film, if you increase the frame rate, you will get less motion blur and I guess it might look less smooth. But if you increase the fps of a game, it will look smoother. (If the game adds motion blur separately, you could still have huge amounts of motion blur even with a high frame rate, because it's a fake effect.)

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
Torn 14y ago
Good examples of frame interlacing here: http://www.100fps.com/ http://www.100fps.com/

colinshark 14y ago

Ideally, you have 60fps AND motion blur, for a picture most approximating reality. The fancy games have motion blur. Any game without motion blur is going to show momentary disjointed images, which is alleviated by motion blur. However, you still want the high frame rate for smoothness and low response time for inputs.